Why, whether you realize it or not, you're probably looking for trouble if you ask a dealer for an o
coinguy1
Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
Why, whether you realize it or not, you're probably looking for trouble if you ask a dealer for an offer on your coin at a coin show - here is why I say that......
1) If you ask for an offer, receive one and accept it, there's a decent (or better) chance you have sold your coin(s) too cheaply.
This certainly applies if you sell your coin(s) to the first dealer to make the offer(s). More, in a moment, about getting subsequent offers from other dealers.
2) If you receive an offer that you think or know is too low, you hopefully wont sell your coin too cheaply, but, you'll probably get upset, possibly VERY upset.
3) Or, the dealer might decline to even make an offer, in which case you might also get upset/frustrated.
Unfortunately, the three situations above cover most likely scenarios/outcomes, so you have pretty much condemned yourself to selling your coin(s) for too little and/or not selling and getting upset. I ask you - why would you want to go and do a thing like that?
Now, back to getting subsequent offers as mentioned in #1 above - many dealers, even completely fair and honest ones, prefer, for good reason, NOT to make offers at coin shows and here's why:
Often, a seller will request an offer from a dealer at a show - I'll name the dealer in this hypothetical "Honest Abe". Honest Abe makes a very fair offer - let's say $500 for coin X, thinking or knowing he can sell it for a 10% profit. Seller, who might have had little, if any idea as to the real value of the coin, then says " Let me think about it and I'll get back to you." or "I'm not sure if I want to sell at that price but thanks." or something like that.
Seller then goes to another dealer (let's call him "Lowball Abe"), who offers $300 for the coin, knowing full well, it is worth considerably more. Seller then says, "Well, Honest Abe has already offered $500 for this coin." So, Lowball Abe, says, "Well, I guess I'd pay $510 then". The seller, who should not trust Lowball Abe at this point, decides (rather than going through any more of this nonsense) to sell the coin to him for $510.
Honest Abe, who provided a fair offer and good information to the seller, is left in the cold, while Lowball Abe ends up with the coin, AFTER trying to rip off the seller.
The above hypothetical is a composite of what I have seen and/or heard of on many occasions. The bottom line is, that based on the behavior of many sellers at coin shows, Honest Abe often puts himself in a no win situation by making a fair offer on the coin(s).
I think, if at all possible, a seller should do thorough homework, to find out ahead of time, what he could/should expect to be able to get for his coin(s). And, that it is better to quote an asking price, rather than soliciting offers and subjecting himself to some of the not-so-desirable outcomes mentioned in 1), 2) and 3) above.
I realize that there are many exceptions to what I have noted above. But, hopefully some of you can save yourselves a bit of grief, either way, in the future.
1) If you ask for an offer, receive one and accept it, there's a decent (or better) chance you have sold your coin(s) too cheaply.
This certainly applies if you sell your coin(s) to the first dealer to make the offer(s). More, in a moment, about getting subsequent offers from other dealers.
2) If you receive an offer that you think or know is too low, you hopefully wont sell your coin too cheaply, but, you'll probably get upset, possibly VERY upset.
3) Or, the dealer might decline to even make an offer, in which case you might also get upset/frustrated.
Unfortunately, the three situations above cover most likely scenarios/outcomes, so you have pretty much condemned yourself to selling your coin(s) for too little and/or not selling and getting upset. I ask you - why would you want to go and do a thing like that?
Now, back to getting subsequent offers as mentioned in #1 above - many dealers, even completely fair and honest ones, prefer, for good reason, NOT to make offers at coin shows and here's why:
Often, a seller will request an offer from a dealer at a show - I'll name the dealer in this hypothetical "Honest Abe". Honest Abe makes a very fair offer - let's say $500 for coin X, thinking or knowing he can sell it for a 10% profit. Seller, who might have had little, if any idea as to the real value of the coin, then says " Let me think about it and I'll get back to you." or "I'm not sure if I want to sell at that price but thanks." or something like that.
Seller then goes to another dealer (let's call him "Lowball Abe"), who offers $300 for the coin, knowing full well, it is worth considerably more. Seller then says, "Well, Honest Abe has already offered $500 for this coin." So, Lowball Abe, says, "Well, I guess I'd pay $510 then". The seller, who should not trust Lowball Abe at this point, decides (rather than going through any more of this nonsense) to sell the coin to him for $510.
Honest Abe, who provided a fair offer and good information to the seller, is left in the cold, while Lowball Abe ends up with the coin, AFTER trying to rip off the seller.
The above hypothetical is a composite of what I have seen and/or heard of on many occasions. The bottom line is, that based on the behavior of many sellers at coin shows, Honest Abe often puts himself in a no win situation by making a fair offer on the coin(s).
I think, if at all possible, a seller should do thorough homework, to find out ahead of time, what he could/should expect to be able to get for his coin(s). And, that it is better to quote an asking price, rather than soliciting offers and subjecting himself to some of the not-so-desirable outcomes mentioned in 1), 2) and 3) above.
I realize that there are many exceptions to what I have noted above. But, hopefully some of you can save yourselves a bit of grief, either way, in the future.
0
Comments
It is a bit of a paradox is it not?
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
When you ask a cutomer what he/she need for a coin why don't they speak up? I have tried this over the years and it is like pulling teeth to get an ask price out of a customer. They always put the light back on me and i make a fair offer but one where i know i won't get hurt and also one that if i have to stock the coin for several month allows me to still make money. If it is a key or short turnaround coin my offers are always stronger.
6024 N. 9th Ave #5
Pensacola, FL 32504
HTTP://WWW.AACoinCo.Com
I ended up selling that specific grouping for over $20,000 through private sale. Don't ever allow yourself to get cheated! Always get other offers!!
Again, great post.
<< <i>Reminds me of the process of buying a car. >>
Yea, verily.
Whoever bids first loses. You would think that a few people would have enough common courtesy to the buyer who originally offered him the highest price to see if he'd match what the low-baller last offered, but you would be wrong.
Obscurum per obscurius
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
Why don't I sell to dealers often? Because the dealer has to make money by reselling the coin, so he won't buy it for what a retail customer would pay. In the old days, a collector had no way to access the retail customer. That has changed! As much as we enjoy pointing out scams and ragging on Ebay, that's how a collector can get retail for coins.
As nwcs pointed out, there are parallels to the automobile market. If you sell your car to a dealer, you're not going to get as much as with a private sale. Why do it then? The convenience may make the cost worthwhile to you.
The only way I would offer a dealer one of my coins at a show is if I knew that coin was absolutely stand out for it's type and grade. I would have to feel that coin had a hook, that would make the dealer offer anything at all, let alone above average money.
And given that--if the coin was that nice--I would probably want to hold out and explore the options of selling it directly to a collector so I could realize the most money for it.
If I had the time, and the inclination.
Clankeye
ie i might be willing to take the $300 IF time were more valuable to me at that moment than $200.
if your scenario were 100% true, then agentjim would be correct - ALL coins would ALWAYS have to be sold at auction to receive a fair price.
as you noted, there are many exceptions to your scenario.
K S
1. Tell the dealer your intention of getting a few offers before selling. This way they know they will have to be competitive if they want the coin.
2. Ask the dealer if their offer is good for the day or just until you leave the table??
3. Tell them that you will not disclose their offer to anyone else in all fairness and ask if they want to know if you get a better offer, or if that is as much as they can afford to put into the coin no matter what.
I think if you are fair and honest to the dealers you have a much better chance of receiving the same treatment in return. And remember that a fair offer is both fair to you and fair to the dealer as they need to make a profit to stay in business.
Jay
Not anymore - collectors now have access to each other via Ebay and other online auctions. Collectors can sell for more and buy for less - the middleman is getting squeezed.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
What about the situation where someone does not have the expertise and may never have the expertise to value coins. The coin market changes month to month it seems and how many non pros can keep up AND have a life?
How many times have we heard or read or know someone who walks into a coin/stamp shop, real estate office, collectibles store, antique store, antiquities shop, etc. and ask for $xxxx for their property. The prospective buyer sees the unrecognized value and buys the item on the spot. The seller is happy and the dealer within hours or days turns the item for a 500%+ profit. Is that a win win?
As a kid I was ripped off when buying coins from Littleton, I didn't know better. Now I know better and find dealers trying to rip me off when trying to sell. Things have gotten better but there are so many dishonest dealers out there it is discouraging. These days I find myself reading more about coins than actually buying them.
If the shenanigans going on in the collectibles area were subject to government regulations I bet more than half would go out of business and another quarter would end up in jail.
The solution is put 'em on eBay yourself, and don't sell your coins to dealers!
(Oops. I don't wanna shoot myself in the foot. I'll shut up now. I am a dealer, after all.)
'Tis indeed a delicate dance, negotiation. In numismatics, as in anything.
Sound advice for the timid. For the bolder collector, this method usually works well.
Approach a dealer at a show with a centrally located table, and ask him how much he is willing to pay. Regardless of the amount quoted scream, YOU CHEAP, LOW-BALLING SKUNK and punch him in the nose as hard as you can. Then politely approach the dealer at the next table and ask him to make his best offer.
CG
6024 N. 9th Ave #5
Pensacola, FL 32504
HTTP://WWW.AACoinCo.Com
A plug here, when the need suddeny arose for me to get money fast last year I sold about half of the coins to Mike Printz at Larry Whittlows and while maybe Mike helped me because he's a nice guy I don't think he made hi offers because he liked me as the only reason for his offer. Mike paid me a very fair price for the coins I sent him and if ever had to sell in a hurry again I certainly would do so.
I guess it all depends on what you have to sell and who you do buisness with as well as how fast you need the money.
Here's a question for you Mark, lets say that a large coin auction firm insists on payment on auction coins with no time needed for reurn privledges to expire [because their aren't any] within a week of the invoice date, but on the other end takes 2 months to pay out to the sellers. Sounds like an interest free loan to me, what do you think?
{Not that I'm trying to put you on the spot or anything]
Edited to say 2 months, but my point was if the auction companies insist on prompt payment from buyers then they should have prompt payment to sellers also.
Les
<< <i>Here's a question for you Mark, lets say that a large coin auction firm insists on payment on auction coins with no time needed for return privledges to expire [because their aren't any] within a week of the invoice date, but on the other end takes 4 months to pay out to the sellers. Sounds like an interest free loan to me, what do you think? >>
Les, the well known/highly regarded auction companies typically pay consignors within 45 days - if someone took "4 months" they were likely taking advantage of the consignor and/or were having financial difficulties. Either way, in the absence of a wonderful explanation, I'd hesitate to do business with them again.
michael
Example: Collector asks dealer if he is interested in a coin. Dealer says "yes, what do you want for it?" Collector says "I don't know. What do you want to pay?" Dealer gives collector a price only to have the collector become angry saying "that's too cheap....you only want to steal my coins."
If you have a range for what you want, perhaps it would help if you told it to the dealer. I know that when a collector gives me a price range that I am able to tell right away weather or not I have a shot at buying his coin. If not, I politely tell them that I don't think we will be able to get together on that particular piece and thank them for offering it to me.
Simple as that.
And yes there are some low life scum dealers out there. There is also an equal number of low life scum collectors. It is up to each of us to decide if we feel comfortable with the transaction.
njcoincrank
Very interesting, but you are stereotyping, Dealers are human beings and it depends on the dealer.
Dealers maybe stereotyped, but they run the entire spectrum. Some are scum bags, others I know, I would trust with my life. Its the same in any other hobby or endeavour. You are making something simple far too complex.
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
Try to immagine how many times these dealers have been offered coins, have had games played with them , people looking for free appraisals etc. If you are a straight shooter and tell dealers your intentions and how you want to do, I believe most will be much more friendly and easy to deal with.
Jay
Lots to think about in this post.
I make all my purchases at shows and have developed relationships with several dealers. I don't sell coins very often, but when I do, I sell them to the dealer who sells that type of material (and is thus more likely to: a) be happy to make the purchase and, b) offer more. I've found that selling coins to one of "my" dealers enhances our relationship and frequently gets me the "first look" at new purchases.
And, when I want to find out what price levels are for a particular coin, I have a good enough relationship to ask "Where do these usually trade?" and get an accurate answer.
Frankly, I'm amazed at all the "I walked up to a dealer and got treated badly" stories. Haven't the storytellers developed a relationship with any dealers?
Check out the Southern Gold Society
is good for another 10% offer on your coin.
Camelot