It's a mighty thin line between PCGS 58 & Gem

Boom

Oh how I wish I knew how to put pictures up here. Soon enough, I suppose. I have before me a 32-S a 34-D and a 42-S that I picked up that all grade PCGS AU 58. They are absolutely beautiful Washington Quarters. It almost makes sense to start such a collection. Now you know why and how there are dealers that fleece the masses. I mean-you've got to do some SERIOUS looking to see why and still it's hard to believe! I guarantee you I could take these coins out of these PCGS slabs-march myself to the local coin shop and sell them easily for 63's. I'm flabberghasted! W O W !

Stuart

Boom: I am starting an AU-58 type set and have already purchased a couple of gorgeous PCGS AU-58 Seated Liberty Dollars and also an AU-50++ that look very close to MS-63's. By the way, the surfaces of the 1860-O are PL as is the obv of the 1871...

It's the most cost-effective grade to purchase for 19th Century type coins -- and they have great eye appeal !!

Boom

The truth of the matter is it scares a person to death-makes em never want to submit another coin. I recall my very first submission of 4 coins when I first joined this Gold Club. I hand picked 4 quarters at a shop where the dealer has this saying,"Everything raw in my shop marked Unc is either MS 60 or 63". I picked out my 4 favorite that he had available that day a 36-S a 38 , 38-s and a 39-S. Now, I've been at this for a long time. Lighting wasn't the greatest but he did have a lamp and a 5X. Long story short- The coin that I was convinced was a dead-ringer-the 36-S, came back PCGS 58. I was in shock- however -the bright side was that the other three came back 65. I learned something that day. Tell ya what. PM me your email addy and I'll send them in the form of attatcments to you and you can post em up here- Are you game?

tradedollarnut

So.....you're saying there just might be some negative plastic value here?

lava

I agree, 58s can be eye-popping.

Stuart

TDN: I figure that most certified AU-58's were submitted by people looking to make MS-63's. Therefore if I can purchase a certified AU-58, that someone else has already taken the "not really mint state" commercial loss on -- I can buy a coin with mint state eye appeal at a significant discount off of mint state price.

sinin1

I have seen some awful ugly AU-58's


just because they have a very little wear, does not mean they have great luster, strike or eye appeal

Stuart

sinin1: I agree that it's always best to view the coin in person to determine if it meets your own individual purchasing criteria. I have been very pleased especially with PCGS AU-58's which seem to be graded very strictly.

It is certainly true that eye appeal is in the eye of the beholder

Robgetty

I've found some 58's that beat the heck out of a "technically uncirculated yet ugly"
MS60. Plus, usually if someone sent it in, they thought it merited the higher grade.

Boom

They'll be forthcoming here shortly. The question for me is , since all 3 are significant dates in the series-if I should a) crack them out and re-submit them? b) sell them as they are or c) submit them to perhaps a more lenient grading service!? Opinions?

oreville

boom: You need to send them as a .jpg attachment. You have them as a document related attachment. Cannot upload.

Skipper53

Boom,
just make sure your attachment is less than 50kb or PCGS won't accept it.

Boom

Well, I just sent another effort to Oreville using the editor and saved under the.jpg setting. I believe these will be better. Looks like O went to bed-can't say that I blame him-there's always tomottow. No big deal we'll just try again. Thanks for everyone's patience I am still learning but I catch on quickly! Ya know Stuart-those coins you have there are so beautifulf-ina weird sort of way more beautiful tha many Uncirculated pieces. That just may be a good set of any type to start. Minimal investment versus top notch -high priced pieces witn no way to go but up! Totally logical!

jdimmick

Not saying that there not out there, but I have also found the PCGS Au-58 coins to be much better and nicer in overall quality that the other services Au-58's.

Stuart

<< I have also found the PCGS AU-58 coins to be much better and nicer in overall quality that the other services Au-58's. >>

JDimmick: I agree with you, and almost mentioned this earlier in the thread. Thanks for bringing it up & reminding me. Those of you who know me (DizzleCC, JBSteven, GSAGuy et al.) know that I look at the coin, not the plastic. My theory is to use the plastic to negotiate the coin price lower (in my favor as a purchaser). i.e. I like to purchase under-graded coins at near the graded price.

I've been implementing my AU-58 type coin strategy for the past year, and am extremely pleased with my highly selective 19th Century rare coin purchases. As I've critically looked through AU-58's I've noticed that the PCGS AU-58's are exactly what I'm looking for -- more often than with other grading services. I'm not PCGS biased. I respect NGC, ANACS & ICG, and have some nice MS & AU coins in those holders, as well as a few in PCI (usually old Green label), an ACG or two, and even a couple of really conservatively graded NTC's!! (I know that I should be excommunicated from this forum!!! (I love that icon & was waiting for a chance to use it!)

It seems to me that the PCGS AU-58's are coins that most of us collector's would consider Choice Uncirculated with some very minor technical hairline, cabinet friction, or cleaning cloth rub that knocks down a beautiful MS-63 coin to a technical AU-58. As a collector (not investor) I'm happy to pay AU money for a choice mint state-looking coin for my own personal collecting satisfaction. And it seems to me that the PCGS AU-58's fit that picture more often than not.

I did recently have Mike Faraone of ANACS grade an ICG AU-55 Capped Bust Half that I recently purchased with lots of mint luster under toning, who agreed with me that it's really AU-58 (not 55), which shows that there are conservatively graded coins in all types of plastic.

But, as others have said in other threads on thsi forum, as time passes more overgraded coins tend to remain in overgraded holders, and many of the under-graded coins get resubmitted (not by me) for higher grades (grade inflation)...

Just my 2 cents worth ... Thanks for reading !!

Stuart

By the way, does PCGS grade coins as PR-58 ?? That would also be a fun grade to collect in 19th Century Type Coins ...

Russ

<< <i>By the way, does PCGS grade coins as PR-58 ?? >>



Yes.

Russ, NCNE

Stuart

Thanks Russ! Well, I'm going to have to start pricing PCGS PR-58 19th Century Type Coins !!! This'll be fun !!

Bikingnut

a) crack them out and re-submit them? b) sell them as they are or c) submit them to perhaps a more lenient grading service!? Opinions?

I would leave them as they are. Unless you are looking for a greater profit margin.

darktone

I went to a coin shop yesterday and the owner pulled out a PCGS slabbed 1917 typeI quarter D-mint? with the grade covered up and with a big smile asked me to tell him the grade. I said AU58 FH and he asked why I said AU58. I told him the coin had no original luster left(cleaned) and had a little rub- he said I was right that it was graded AU58 FH but that he thought it had all kinds of original luster as he rotated it in the light and said he was expecting MS64 FH. Yes it had shine to it but no luster. Keep in mind these types of coins are in AU58 slabs also but should be in body bags but some think they look as good as 64's- so if you see an au58 that looks 64 you might want to figure out why it got that grade before you spend the money. mike

MacCoin

stop teasing me with that 32S. email the picture to me and I upload them for you.

Stuart

Mike: Fair point -- you've always got to critically look at the coin -- not just the plastic holder grade. Some AU-58's are unadulterated near miss high eye-appeal coins, others may not be what we are looking for and could have other cleaning problems.

But the intent of the AU-58 grade is not for cleaned coins... ANACS would knock the coin down for being cleaned. I assume that PCGS would "Body Bag" most of them for cleaning...

oreville

Boom's 1934-D quarter.

foodude

It's a mighty thin line between PCGS 58 & Gem

Shouldn't we have some comments from Marty on this one, given his extensive experience

LucyBop

GEM to me, when i use it, is in reference to a ms65 or better, which i then shift to the term, ultra gem...

ms63 to me isnt gem.....

GottaGetCoins

Is a type set supposed to ba all the same grade?

darktone

<< <i>Is a type set supposed to ba all the same grade? >>

you can do a type set any way you want- there are no rules!

<< <i>Mike: Fair point -- you've always got to critically look at the coin >>

my point is also that many people don't know what they are looking at and that the grade of AU58 should not be looked upon as a safe haven as it seems like lately many are generalizing that most AU58's are near miss MS65's- I just don't see it this way. mike

Bikingnut

After seeing the 34D, I can see the rub or wear on the hair line. That's what put it in the AU58 holder. Not a bad looking coin though. It would fit right into my Only 58's registry set.

Baley

PCGS AU58: the grade of the future (for scarce and rare coins; for common coins, MS64 is the grade of the future)