Have you ever been hacked off when you found out...
ANACONDA
Posts: 4,692 ✭
...that some substantial coin you bought at a particular grade was once in a holder at a lower grade????
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Comments
peacockcoins
I've had your example happen, and no it didn't bother me. Grading standards have changed, and there are plenty of coins out there that have changed numbers.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
The holder doesn't matter as much as whether or not YOU like the coin.
<< <i>Not if the coin deserves to be where it is at. It wouldn't bother me. >>
If I felt any other way, then I should feel ashamed to ever submit an "upgrade."
Glass half full/half empty -- who is to say they got it right the first time and the new slab is overgraded?
YES! In fact, it was yours too. I owned a 3 legs PCGS 63 w/ great color, sold it. Six months later it turns up on your site for sale in a NGC 64 holder.
There are currently two Key date barber halves in MS grades graded by NGC listed on various internet sites that were cracked out and upgraded one point. They still look just as beat up and like the original grades they were given, but now they having asking prices hundreds of dollars higher and some ink on the grading plastic saying they are of a better quality.
I find the crack out game in MS grades utterly reprehensible to the hobby and as such I will never collect any coin in any MS grades. Not that anybody really cares, but the hobby is still too flawed as far as inconstistence grading is concerned for me to ever spend any money on MS coins in the series I enjoy.
If I find a coin upgraded, I would NEVER buy it, just out of principal.
Tyler
edited comment - I would not buy MS grades sight unseen with only the plastic grade, or based on a computer scan. Eyeballing the coin in person is different and I have purchased coins over $1000 in MS condition.
Of Course if I were selling it, having it in the higher grade holder would most likely bring more money at time of sale, cause many of you know that several people pay for the plastic label grade vs the coin itself???
service. I,m guessing this service is PCGS? They have a grade guarantee dont they?
What IS their policy on grade guarantees? I know if its been cracked out all bets are off but...what if you
`have the proof` it was a better grade than now?
If grading standards werent so wishy washy sometimes maybe we could have rock solid grading
that NO ONE could argue with.
What if we DID have rock solid no-one-can-argue-the-grade grading it wouldnt work
caise collectors wouldnt have anything to complain about. That would be a coin collectors nightmare huh.
I remember that coin. It was a moose. I don't have it any more.
"Doggie ate it."
(Followed him around for a week. Musta gotton lodged on his liver. Washed it off real good though.)
It doesn't matter what the price is?
It doesn't matter what it looks like?
It doesn't matter that most eye appealing coins holdered in the last few years would now be graded one to two grades higher than in 1987?
Would it make a difference if you knew that the previous lower holder was a first generation PCGS holder? I don't see why, but would it?
Interesting.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not a fan of grade inflation. Yet I've seen plenty of coins that I'd be happy to buy in a higher holder if the price was right. Does it really matter if you pay 75% over sheet for a PQ near gem or a 25% discount to sheet for a just made it 'gem'. Same coin..... same price.... different holder.
in an old PCGS rattler holder. the coin was graded PR-64 but is a lock upgrade.
The coin was in the recent Goldberg Sale and I had to fight off two crackout dealers that
bid the coin up almost to its upgrade value. The coin had the toning I was looking for
and seemed to be a 1-2 point upgrade candidate plus a Cameo designation. Should know
if I was stupid or wise by the end of next week. Will let you know. As long as a coin has the "look"
then it would not bother me if it had been upgraded. If the coin is a really marginal for the grade
then I would pass.
Camelot
I have on four different occasions cracked those coins out had them graded back in the lower grade by both grading services and got much more $$ than I bought all four for.
I know this sounds like heresy monsterman, but it has worked well for me!
comes close is buying a raw F15 and having it come back as VF35 (I still think
it isn't a VF!) But, that was just a rare, happy win in the slabbing game.
I recall paying a stupid price for a rattler PF63 Barber half at auction last year. Paid 64++ money for it. Sold it in the holder later on for
65 money to a major dealer. Another occurence was a MS62 1839 ND half that got upgraded at that the SAME service to MS64 within a 2 year window. The coin was a dog as a 62 and still a dog as a 64. It went up nearly 6X in price too. Unless something walks and talks, the history does make a difference, that is unless you are omnipotent about grading/pricing coins and know EVERYTHING about the market. The fact that the best graders only bat 80% should tell you something.
roadrunner
Dave
My philosophy is to buy a COIN, not a paper insert (the plastic's ok, it protects the coin from fingerprints and drool). - If it's a nice coin and it was previously under-graded, it doesn't matter.
<< <i>I find the crack out game in MS grades utterly reprehensible to the hobby and as such I will never collect any coin in any MS grades. Not that anybody really cares, but the hobby is still too flawed as far as inconstistence grading is concerned for me to ever spend any money on MS coins in the series I enjoy. >>
ARCO, Considering that humans grade coins and that humans make mistakes, why would buying a coin that had been previously mis-graded (ie under-graded) bother you? If they get it wrong the 1st time does the collector/dealer have to forever be stuck with their mistake? What is reprehensible is when the services Mis-grade coins: they probably undergrade as many as they overgrade - not many crack out the over-grades and ask for it to be downgraded, but the under-grades are often cracked out until they get graded properly.
Your post suggests that the first time a coin is graded, it is 100% accurate - do you really believe that to be true? It's not the hobby that's flawed, its the grading services that are not perfect. But if you refuse to buy nice coins unless they have never been re-submitted, you may miss out on some gorgeous coins. If you really feel the way your post reads, your recourse is to NOT buy slabbed coins period, as it's the grading services who make mistakes, and not buying MS coins does nothing to "punish" them if you still buy their circulated slabbed coins. It would seem that unless the grading services ALWAYS, 100% of the time, grade circulated coin accurately, you would have to avoid them too as there are also mistakes made in grading circulated coins. JMHO
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
I don't mind a coin going up one grade, but going up two grades.... and from PCGS to NGC!! That just tells me the coin is either totally maxed out, or more likely ovegraded. And even if I was wrong about that, psychologically I just couldn't do it.
This reveals not just whether or not the coin has been upgraded 12 times, but if its been cleaned, buffed, dipped, spanked, milled, whizzed or
re-colored recently in order to cram it into a shiny new holder.
It also shows that plenty of coins now called 'finest known' (or other similarly silly statements) simply aren't and were sold in past sales described for what they really are.
re-colored recently in order to cram it into a shiny new holder. "
....spanked......!
I love creative writing!!
Recently received an 1878 PCGS MS65RD IHC on spec from a well-known non-specialty dealer. Was surprised to find a small carbon spot [wasn't in the online description