Grading Games

Beachbum

We already are very familiar with the scandals of the past....WIWAG, etc. for PSA.

There was the auction this past summer of a graded BGS 9 Mark Prior card which miraculously became a PRISTINE 10 ! To make that conversion more interesting was the proof that it was the same card as it had the same serial number and close inspection of "before" and "after" cards showed the card had a real close shave.

I have a very good friend who is a reputable Bowman Chrome buyer and seller like myself. He has been tracking 5-10 large submitters, including the seller of the aforesaid Prior card and found statistical results which shed some some interesting light on the number of BGS 9.5's and PSA 10's they have for sale. Of course you can argue that with any large submitter they are using a greater "pool" of cards....but I suspect something more is afoot here.

The difference in modern cards from a 9 to 10 at PSA is huge dollars.

Getting beyond the subjective nature of one grader to another, does anyone really believe there isn't preferential treatment for some submitters? Is this no big deal ? Is it more nefarious as in "contacts" within the grading company that shepard these cards through ?

Your opinion ?

AlanAllen

You're mixing two different topics here: Unidentified alterations and preferential treatment. Do I believe there are people very good at altering cards and that can get these cards into BGS and PSA slabs? Yes. Do I believe PSA gives preferetial grades to volume submitters? No. Are some of those skilled alterers also volume submitters? Yes.

Joe

Beachbum

Interesting distinction, but damning as well even if it is one over the other.

Again, isn't there a dark cloud over the grading game when cards are so easily passed into holders with alteration?

What does that say about grading that it can't distinguish one untouched card from the trimmed one ?

I see trouble either way you look at it.

kuhlmann

Ive said it once and ill say it again!!! Just a matter of time to this grading Bullsh$t. is on 60 minutes!!!!

AlanAllen

What makes you think it is easy? From what I've seen, PSA does a damn good job keeping up with the cretins, and scarce few altered cards get through. But it would be naive to think that NO altered cards get through. Most of the examples given are cards that the submitter pulled from a pack, submitted, and had returned as trimmed. That's happened to me. What it tells me is that PSA errs on the side of caution, and if there is any doubt they reject it.

Joe

Beachbum

I'm referring as much to BGS as I am to PSA...I make no "brand" distinction here.

I'm on the BGS Boards full-time and only Part-time here. Though I find this to be the thinking man's Board, they are very advanced in their knowledge and info on trimming, which this Board is not.

This is happening more than a few times. I can name volume dealers who feature nothing but BGS 9.5's and PSA 10's; these are the very same dealers who are constantly "outed" on the BGS Boards for suspected trimming.

I received a PSA 10 from a certain high volume Bonds dealer from Florida that looks like it was ground in a pepper mill with severe chipping and 65-35 centering. Was the grader blind at PSA ? If so, why wasn't he the one who graded my submissions of 2003 BCDP Gold auto refractors which I needed a caliper to distinguish it from 49-51 centering, four razor sharp corners and no surface marks..which ended up a Mint 9.

I think there is much more than meets the eye here.....

Stone193

The PSA Financial Guarantee of Grade & Authenticity is fundamental to PSA's concept of third-party grading. The cash-back policy ensures the accuracy of the grade assigned to any PSA-graded card as long as the card remains in its tamper-evident holder.

I understand if someone is a volume dealer banking on 10's to make a living, but if we are talking about a collector who feels that a card may have "gotten by" a grader - doesn't that individual have the right to have PSA review their work and when necessary, do what's right, and refund the invoice cost when they make a mistake - I'm probably being naive here - would PSA admit a mistake and invoke their "financial guarantee..." What do you guys think?

Beachbum

Hey Stone:

I am speaking specifically of the dealers that are making incomes that are huge each month based upon PSA and BGS submissions that conveniently come back as 10's and 9.5's .

I am debating setting up various links to certain sellers and let this Board decide for itself how coincidental the number of 10's and BGS 9.5's are in their inventory.

I am no longer naive after seeing the grades some sellers routinely get.

Again, without resorting to exaggeration, how can grading companies avoid the future consequences of grading cards which are trimmed ? What do you think would be the effect of exposing that little nasty secret ?

CADILLACN97

why does everyone think that large submitters get special treatment? as far as the graders, all they have is a card with a number. they have no idea where it came from or who it came from. now a small time collector like myself might send in, say 4 pack fresh 90 bowman sosa's. that is all i have and i want them graded. big dealers and/or shops have maybe 200 of the darn things, and look at each one carefully to pick out the best 10 or 20. "how do large submitters get so many 10s?" this is why. not special treatment. on the same note, a crooked dealer may have a trimmed card or 2 that he sends in. but he is also sending in 30 more of the same card. it is possible from time to time that this happens and trimmed cards are slabbed (we know they are out there). they will get through, atleast until each and everycard submitted is measured, and that won't happen.