What is the most controversial topic relating to coins?

ANACONDA

What is the most controversial topic relating to coins?

adrian

foodude

The "is it AT or NT" discussions seem to get people going.

Outhaul

There are so many. First one that comes to mind is to slab or not to slab, the second is toning...NT or AT?

Cheers,

Bob

jeffnpcb

Grading companies and their ability to have seemingly floating grades depending on the time of year!

clw54

Modern vs. classic.

goose3

just about anything you start Adrian.


actually I have to agree with Clw54.

ealandg

To dip or not to dip.

fullerfun4

I've been interested in the area of "conservation" of coins that has come about since the treasure ships of the recent past (Central America, Brother Jonathan) have been discovered. It seemed to me that any type of cleaning of coins was verboten until these gold coins from sunken ships were dredged up. All of a sudden, "proper" cleaning of coins was ok (or at least cleaning by the "big boys") while the little guys still get their submissions returned in body bags. Of course I know that it is the manner in which a coin is cleaned that determines if it is damaged, but it just seems to me that when I submit a 200 year old copper coin that may have been cleaned 100 years ago, and shows no adverse surface damage, it should get the same consideration as a 150 year old gold coin that had been encrusted in sea water its entire life. Just my opinion.
Gary

wingedliberty

1. Grading standardization.
2. Conservation/Cleaning.
3. Ethics.

paigowjohnny

Too many grades, particularly in the MS range...

ccr

The good dealers -vs- the bad, evil dealers.

Yupp

The ranking of grading companies, in particular who is 2nd, 3rd & 4th. Everyone names to same ones, just in a different order.
Seems to be no dispute over #1 (PCGS).

Bunker

1. Conservation

2. Ebay Scammers

3. NT vs. AT

MICHAELDIXON

The love/hate relationship between agengjim and legend!

RYK

1. Grading standardization.
2. Conservation/cleaning.
3. Ethics

Brian,

I would agree that these are at the top of the list for collectors.

Stuart

WOW! We've got alot of controversial subjects to discuss about coins to keep us from becoming "bored" with this board. And if we run out of controversial things to say, we can just change the channel and go over to the "open forum"

dollardude

I can think of several:

1. Grading and grading companies
2. Cleaning or "conservation" (a fancy word for cleaning)
3. Natural vs. artificial toning
4. Investing vs. hobby
5. Pricing
6. Best dealers
7. Cherrypicking

DCAMFranklin

How anyone could sell a coin raw. When they could take a week to send the coin(s) registered mail, 4 months in the grading process, another week for a return trip by registered mail and then sell the coin.

lordmarcovan

Grading, hands down.

relayer

In God We Trust

DHeath

Janet Jackson and the SLQ T1. Coincidence? I think not.

MrEureka

Are sample slabs O/T?

tradedollarnut

Whether posters with dogs as their icons are 'all there'...... or NOT!

foodude

Whether posters with dogs as their icons are 'all there'...... or NOT!

I think Frank is okay ... he collects Franklins

Coin Finder

I would say the range of MS grades from MS 60 to 70 for almost any metal copper, silver or gold, modern or classic and the premiums paid for one point.

Tbig

MrEureka

Whether posters with dogs as their icons are 'all there'...... or NOT!

Wanted - superb chopmarked trade dollars. If you have a blazing unc, please email me!

The pot is calling the kettle black!

tradedollarnut

I think Frank is okay ... he collects Franklins

Ewwwwww - double whammy!


The pot is calling the kettle black!

Franklin Mint! Franklin Mint!

mnmcoin

I think it is who sucks more...

Russ
RGL
DHeath
MadMarty
ksteelheader


morris <><

MrEureka

Franklin Mint! Franklin Mint!

Jealous?

tradedollarnut

Jealous?

That you can enjoy yourself and have money left over.................ABSOLUTELY! Of course, if I didn't spend it on coins, it'd probably just go into stock market losses.... or the wife would spend it!

Shamika

Dipping without a doubt!

ARCO

For me it is the crackout game. Too much inconsistencies in MS grading especially when every grade point can mean thousands even tens of thousands of dollars difference. too much faith placed in the plastic and too much inflexibility trying to buy coins at a level different than the sanctified holder grade.

Tyler

ANACONDA

Wow...as i was reading the thread i caught myself thinking.....yeah, that's really controversial.......yeah, that really pushes my button......etc., etc.

In so many ways we're really lucky that we have so many controversial topics to discuss.

I've thought many times before that in many ways, coins are such grist for the mill.......

But, to answer my question, i think grading and it's many subcomponents is the most controversial.

As coins have become so amazingly expensive, the grades have become more and more important yet still so very subjective.

I recently bought an 1801 $10 in mint state 64, the coin whose image i posted yesterday. If it's actually a mint state 63 it's worth about $25,000. If it's truly a 64 it's worth around $50,000. If someone cracks it out and gets a 65, it's worth $150,000.

Many people make $25,000 a year, so that coin is either anywhere from one year's wages to a potential of 6 years wages. That is huge and in my opinion, grading is still the most controversial. I'm not saying that my opinion is right - i'm just giving you the reason why i think the way i do.

adrian

ANACONDA

I would appreciate it if somone would run a poll or count the responses given.

I would be curious to know a little more objectively what we as a group think is the most controversial topic.

(I did note and like the subject of a type one SLQ vs. Janet Jackson's breast.)

aknow

The blatant dishonesty throughout the industry

MrEureka

The blatant dishonesty throughout the industry

aknow - I don't understand. Who's dishonest?

tradedollarnut

Adrian: What you say regarding the 1801 $10 is absolutely true. It's unfortunate that a coin can't be priced to an absolute. The best we can do is approximate.

You stated your list of grades and values:

I recently bought an 1801 $10 in mint state 64, the coin whose image i posted yesterday. If it's actually a mint state 63 it's worth about $25,000. If it's truly a 64 it's worth around $50,000. If someone cracks it out and gets a 65, it's worth $150,000.

Now make it look like this:

I recently bought an 1801 $10 in mint state 64, the coin whose image i posted yesterday. If it's actually an NGC MS 63 it's worth about $15-20k, a PCGS mint state 63 and it's worth about $25,000. If it's truly an NGC MS64 then it's worth about $35-40k, if a PCGS 64 it's worth around $50,000. If someone cracks it out and gets an NGC MS65, then it's worth $75-100k and if it crosses to PCGS MS65, it's worth $150,000

See how the two services work off each other to lower the value gaps between grades? This is not controversial to those who understand and accept - just 'the way it is'!

ANACONDA

"The blatant dishonesty throughout the industry."

I think that is one of the most unfortunate things connected to coins but not as controversial as who is the biggest loser in this forum.

ksteelheader

Why MadMarty seems to be whooping other peoples a$$es by finding multiples of great coins...

ANACONDA

"See how the two services work off each other to lower the value gaps between grades?"

Interesting. I think the problem isn't what it's worth once it's in a holder. The problem is that a given coin could get into one of six holders.

clw54

<< <i>Adrian: What you say regarding the 1801 $10 is absolutely true. It's unfortunate that a coin can't be priced to an absolute. The best we can do is approximate.

You stated your list of grades and values:

I recently bought an 1801 $10 in mint state 64, the coin whose image i posted yesterday. If it's actually a mint state 63 it's worth about $25,000. If it's truly a 64 it's worth around $50,000. If someone cracks it out and gets a 65, it's worth $150,000.

Now make it look like this:

I recently bought an 1801 $10 in mint state 64, the coin whose image i posted yesterday. If it's actually an NGC MS 63 it's worth about $15-20k, a PCGS mint state 63 and it's worth about $25,000. If it's truly an NGC MS64 then it's worth about $35-40k, if a PCGS 64 it's worth around $50,000. If someone cracks it out and gets an NGC MS65, then it's worth $75-100k and if it crosses to PCGS MS65, it's worth $150,000

See how the two services work off each other to lower the value gaps between grades? This is not controversial to those who understand and accept - just 'the way it is'! >>



Yep, and it's still the same coin regardless of the number on the plastic. Something is screwy with this system.

tradedollarnut

Well, you've got your coin value and your plastic value. Unfortunately, sometimes the plastic value is negative. Sometimes it's positive. That's the "power of the holder".

MrEureka

sometimes the plastic value is negative

TDN - You know better!

tradedollarnut

Ever had a coin that you felt was worth more out of the holder than in? How about one of those AU63's in an AU58 holder? Or a properly graded coin in an ACG holder?

Sometimes, the plastic value is negative.

tradedollarnut

double post

MrEureka

Sometimes, the plastic value is negative.

Not as long as you can remove the coin from the holder.

tradedollarnut

Just because you CAN remove the coin from the holder doesn't change the fact that sometimes the plastic value is negative.

MrEureka

Just because you CAN remove the coin from the holder doesn't change the fact that sometimes the plastic value is negative.

Yes, it does. If a coin that's worth $1000 raw is slabbed and the plastic says it's worth two bucks, the coin will still bring $1000 at auction. The value of the plastic is zero, not negative $998.

Lakesammman

"Done deal" or not??

tradedollarnut

No, Andy, risk is involved. The coin you mention will go for $900 - therefore the value of the plastic in that case is negative $100.

MrEureka

The coin you mention will go for $900 - therefore the value of the plastic in that case is negative $100.

Nope. I said that the coin is worth $1000 raw. But more to the point, whatever the risks, the coin will bring the same price raw as it would in a soon-to-be-cracked slab. So the plastic is worth ZERO.