Davalillo booted
mikeschmidt
Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭
My good friend, Jim Crandall, has been botted from the PSA message boards. Though a sometimes controversial figure, Jim is among the upper echelon of advanced collectors -- one with an extensive network of dealers, insiders and professionals with whom he regularly interacts. His sometimes negative posts here are largely done solely to advance PSA's efforts to remain the premier sportscard grader in the marketplace. Though there are many out there who are happy with PSA's current positioning in the marketplace, there are numerous advanced collectors, like Jim, who challenge PSA to remain the top sportscard company for years to come.
There have been numerous questions and concerns with PSA's business model over the past two years, despite CU's overall rebound in the stock market. The WIWAG scandal, the flight of two of PSA's top graders, seeming discrepancies by PSA in grading of cards (just ask Gator or others about the nuances, sometimes non-existent between 8s, 9s and 10s that get cracked out and re-submitted), and questions/concerns about potentially altered cards slipping their way into PSA holders.
Despite my happiness overall with PSA's product, and their new innovations, I, too, would like to see PSA continue to improve and unquestionably be the best sportscard grader in the hobby. That individuals like Charlie Merkel and Dmitri Young have switched even some of their collections over to GAI only underlines potentially competitive threats that PSA faces in the long term. Whether this is a continuing trend remains to be seen.
Nonetheless, Jim is a great collecting friend, and I have enjoyed speaking with him both on and offline about sportscards. We have engaged in multiple deals over the past two years, and I am shocked and saddened that Joe Orlando would ban Jim from these boards.
MS
There have been numerous questions and concerns with PSA's business model over the past two years, despite CU's overall rebound in the stock market. The WIWAG scandal, the flight of two of PSA's top graders, seeming discrepancies by PSA in grading of cards (just ask Gator or others about the nuances, sometimes non-existent between 8s, 9s and 10s that get cracked out and re-submitted), and questions/concerns about potentially altered cards slipping their way into PSA holders.
Despite my happiness overall with PSA's product, and their new innovations, I, too, would like to see PSA continue to improve and unquestionably be the best sportscard grader in the hobby. That individuals like Charlie Merkel and Dmitri Young have switched even some of their collections over to GAI only underlines potentially competitive threats that PSA faces in the long term. Whether this is a continuing trend remains to be seen.
Nonetheless, Jim is a great collecting friend, and I have enjoyed speaking with him both on and offline about sportscards. We have engaged in multiple deals over the past two years, and I am shocked and saddened that Joe Orlando would ban Jim from these boards.
MS
I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
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Comments
"Tom,
If you can believe it, I think Joe Orlando has prohibited me from posting--kind of unbelievable but its obvious they do not want my message getting out.
Hope all is well with the baby.
Jim"
I think Marc represented the situation very well. If PSA truly banned Jim from posting I for one think they are out of line. This is a place to share idea's, opinion's, and hobby news. When we take any of these three topics so serious that actions like this are taken it harms all of us.
I like PSA very much as they are the ONLY grader for me. But I must say I like Jim Crandell more. He is a true friend and I value his opinions and tremendous contribution to this hobby. Like it or not, Jim is a top-notch collector and is very well connected to dealers. Unfortunately he seems to make himself the voice for others who are not willing to be named. I sometimes wish he didn't do that because he's fighting a battle he can't possibly win in this forum, but he's a big boy.
If Jim is forced to stay away it is our loss as a group of people that strive to learn as much as we can about our hobby.
LET JIM STAY!!! Kicking him out only makes these issues worse!!!
Tom Papa
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
<< <i>Why did he get Banned??? >>
I think it was for all the unsubstantiated rumors that he has posted on these boards. He post false information about WIWAG, the grading scale and a major collector and all of these rumors were proven to be wrong.
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
182 is my pick (more likely this thread will be killed before).
<< <i>
<< <i>Why did he get Banned??? >>
I think it was for all the unsubstantiated rumors that he has posted on these boards. He post false information about WIWAG, the grading scale and a major collector and all of these rumors were proven to be wrong. >>
Proven by who to who? Please koby. Let's not start this garbage again. It's a case of he said, she said. Nothing will ever be proven conclusively.
That's were Jim is at fault. He should just hold his tongue since nothing will ever be proven and people here will only bash him for stating what in his mind is fact.
But getting banned for this is ridiculous? None of us should be banned for little things like this.
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
While I think that Davalillo did sometimes create controversy,I think that he was on the pulse of our hobby more than most and probably well informed considering his connections.I would have to agree with Mikeschmidt amd Gosoxbosox in that if he is really banned,this is not a good thing for the forum boards.He did not seem to use personal attacks but instead asked the hard questions of PSA's management.Now I wonder what we can say and what would be construed as too harsh when we question PSA's methods or status on a particular issue.I hope for the boards sake,he will be reinstated after a time.
Vic
While some things could of been handled differently by all, banning him was not a good idea...
if that is what has happened. Jim deserves better!
aconte
Even though I didn't agree with what he had to say and certainly with the tone he used to say it, I never like to see censorship.
It is so funny how serious some people take this stuff.
Those are my 2 cents....from this small collector
There are ways to present issues. Davalillo was not trying to present issues as much as he was trying to stir trouble. You can't take rumors and lies and present them facts on these forums.
1. SGC merger with GAI
refuted by president of SGC
2. half point system
refuted by president of PSA
3. wiwag issues
refuted by DOJ reported by dude
4. D. Young converting collection
refuted by D. Young's buyer
Time and time again, Davalillo has been wrong about these rumors that he has presented as facts. While there is nothing wrong with bringing up subjects that relate to this hobby, his presentation of these issues was counterproductive to what he was trying to achieve. I am glad that the company has agreed to rid of this destructive behavior.
I do not know Jim at all. He seemed a little too self serving for my taste but what are you gonna do. Ban him?
He still has one of the biggest PSA collections and his comments on this board were not ones that would warrant suspension.
Joe Orlando made a dumb move by banning him.
But, like I told him - I didn't agree with everything that he said and when I didn't - I usually just steered clear of the thread and avoided adding flames to the fire. But, that was my choice just as Jim made his choices. I didn't and don't see a need to ban him.
Dav definitely walked a fine line when it came to bringing up subjects that I'm sure PSA would have rather seen disappear. Does that make him a bad person - no... But, did that make him a thorn in PSA's side - probably yes... Since this is PSA's Board - it is there option to take their board and send Jim home.
Just an aside... Bingo - if we got rid of every arrogant person on this forum - there'd be less than a dozen people left!!!
Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!
lynnfrank@earthlink.net
outerbankyank on eBay!
But, like I told him - I didn't agree with everything that he said and when I didn't - I usually just steered clear of the thread and avoided adding flames to the fire. But, that was my choice just as Jim made his choices. I didn't and don't see a need to ban him.
Dav definitely walked a fine line when it came to bringing up subjects that I'm sure PSA would have rather seen disappear. Does that make him a bad person - no... But, did that make him a thorn in PSA's side - probably yes... Since this is PSA's Board - it is there option to take their board and send Jim home.
Just an aside... Bingo - if we got rid of every arrogant person on this forum - there'd be less than a dozen people left!!!
Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!
lynnfrank@earthlink.net
outerbankyank on eBay!
Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
<< <i>One of the biggest problems has been eliminated.
There are ways to present issues. Davalillo was not trying to present issues as much as he was trying to stir trouble. You can't take rumors and lies and present them facts on these forums.
1. SGC merger with GAI
refuted by president of SGC
2. half point system
refuted by president of PSA
3. wiwag issues
refuted by DOJ reported by dude
4. D. Young converting collection
refuted by D. Young's buyer
Time and time again, Davalillo has been wrong about these rumors that he has presented as facts. While there is nothing wrong with bringing up subjects that relate to this hobby, his presentation of these issues was counterproductive to what he was trying to achieve. I am glad that the company has agreed to rid of this destructive behavior. >>
2 - If I'm not mistaken, Joe did acknowledge that PSA was thinking about the 'half-point ' system and had approached some of its dealers to gauge their acceptance levels. PSA eventually backed off but Joe in a posting on this board did also acknowledge that is it something that PSA can do at another point in time.
4 - Dave Bailey (Dmitri Young's buyer) actually confirmed that some of the collection had been converted to GAI slabs.
As for #1, just because SGC's president said there were no talks, doesn't mean it never happened. Seems to me that another President of slightly great importance once denied any connections to a tie, a cigar and a blue GAP dress.
And #3, until there is full disclosure on the WIWAG issue, the whole incident will be card collecting's version of the grassy knoll.
If posts are unethical, vulgar, not legal, or such,...perhaps a ban is in order. If posts contain rumors, wrong facts, dumb thoughts, controversy, and so on....a ban may be too harsh.
The aforementioned qualities of a post may or may not apply to Davalillo. I do not know him except from the boards and a tentative card transaction of which he never followed up with a second e-mail reply. Those of us with no real first-hand exposure are left to form opinions based on what we read and our judgments of that. I would guess he might be a bit arrogant or aloof, based on some posts/views on vintage interpretation, and wanting special treatment for inclusion of cards which show up as already registered via the registry. Maybe he's a Prima Donna, maybe not, but SO WHAT !!!
No one can deny he is an advanced collector with an outstanding collection. Whether we agree or not with his views, they are entertaining at the least, if not informative. It seem a shame no compromise or something could be worked out with PSA.
A final thought,.... regardless of how any of us feel about this ban or any other board rule or policy,
PSA provides this fine meeting place, free of charge, they own it and control it and make the rules. Overall by far, the best info area for card collecting.
And Jim said to Joe "Thanks for making my day"
What happened.....Did this conversation take place or what?
I don't remember Jim being anymore or any less outspoken than usual for him to be banned today.
What was the final straw?
You might not agree with what someone has to say or even how they say wether right or wrong but you have to respect someone who took the initiative to ask a question or address an issue.There's no real harm in that but you have to admit that some things do in fact get way out of hand at times.
You might not agree with him or even like him all the time but he seems to be a good guy from the few times we've chatted IMO.I was glad to have exchanged a few emails with him and it was all positive.
Hopefully Joe and Jim can resolve this without an audience and we can all carry on with Jim included.
My Auctions
relate with his rule of buying ONLY PSA 8's, but I don't
think his posts on the boards warranted banishment. He never
used bad language, never made personal threats, and most of the
time he didn't initiate the name-calling. I think he honestly
believed all the "rumors" he posted about, and like MS said, his
intentions were usually to make PSA a better company. Why would
he shoot himself in the foot and make things up or try to create
negativity towards PSA? He has more invested in PSA's name than
most here on this forum.
Cut Jim Crandall some slack. He should be allowed to post here.
has managed to continue to garner on these
boards over the years. You know, If you slap a dog,
enough times it WILL BITE YOU! (even a nice dog!)
Is he "respected" just because he is rich and has a lot of cards?
I just do not care about that because he reguarly
showed what a pretentious, arrogant jerk he really was.
That soured me on ANYTHING he had to say.
So, like many (some that will not publically admit it)
I am NOT going to miss him!
*(in case you did not know, btw, he earned all that
great fortune by running a successful business for
many years....)
Currently, the PSA registry has 8554 sets. If Davalillo took his 100 registered sets elsewhere, this would still leave 8454 sets on the PSA registry.
On the other hand, the effect that it would have on another company would be quite dramatic.
GAI does not have a registry, so Davalillo's 100 sets would start them off with a bang.
Currently, the SGC registry has 503 sets. If Davalillo transfered his 100 sets to SGC holders, the SGC registry would grow by a significant twenty percent. This type of growth would probably otherwise take a company like SGC more than thirty-six months.
Hopefully, someone will be kind enough to post the crossover results.
no shocker to me or anyone else with common sence
dave
i agree that all of DAVALILLO'S most infamous rumours have been refuted by reputable sources that confirmed the true facts. this is why i am suprised by JOE ORLANDO"S decision to boot him. it may well have been personal on JOE's part, but let's face it if someone came to your house and made unsubstaniated attacks on you, i'm sure you'd throw them out. sadly, due to DAVALILLO's "i heard" statements i don't think his collection was as celebrated by PSA as it should have been. i feel DAVALILLO couldn't see past that and felt he was being disregarded and this is what fueled his desire to stir the proverbial pot. not that i wanted any of the rumours to be true, and i really didn't care about the DMITRI conversion issue because i would still submit to and buy PSA if one or two major collector's decided to convert to any other company out there, i waited to be convinced and i waited and waited....DAVALILLO almost seems like a tragic figure . i think he'll be missed on these boards for a variety of reasons. one reason being; is that i'm convinced that some people actually enjoyed the nonsensical aftermath caused by some of his posts.
<< <i>i don't think his collection was as celebrated by PSA as it should have been. i feel DAVALILLO couldn't see past that and felt he was being disregarded and this is what fueled his desire to stir the proverbial pot. >>
I think you hit the nail on the head here. Hopefully, a smaller company will give Davalillo the respect that he thinks he is due.
EO
<< <i>I don't miss Davalillo or BOTN but I do miss CrazySC and Zardoz51 >>
difference is that sol and paul were not kicked off the boards like jim and greg were.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
the problem with that logic is that
he was not just "voicing his opinion"
He was using false statements, rumors
and attacks to try his best to "start a fight"
with Joe because (I suspect like many) Joe
did not kiss his ass and give him what ever
he wanted.
IF he really cared about the industry or the hobby
or even his investment of PSA cards, he should
have TALKED TO JOE about these things
but instead he chose this very public forum
(owned and run by PSA) to strut his pompous ass
all over the place.
Joe put up with it a LOT LONGER than most of us
would have, I assure you.
<< <i>is this really a variation? >>
no this is.
<<I really do not understand the support Davaillo has managed to continue to garner on these boards over the years. You know, if you slap a dog enough times it WILL BITE YOU! (even a nice dog!)>>
I couldn't have said it better myself.
The fact is that at this point this is JOE's house and if you bash someone in there own house enough sooner or later you will get evicted and jim just got the boot. PSA provides these message boards for all of us to use for free so if you come on these message board and bash the head of PSA it's PSA's right to kick you off plain and simple.
This is my opinion and nobody has to agree with it.
Paul.
why dont you tell us how you really feel about jim lol
dave
Say.....Steinbrenner?
<< <i>BIGKIDATHEART,
why dont you tell us how you really feel about jim lol
dave >>
You know what, I did not really care one way or
another about him or his collection
until I kept reading how arrogant and piissy
his would get with others
mostly about how great he and his collection was
and how we were all basically pee-ons below him
that he was gracing with his presence here.
Give me a damn break!
No one is that important.
Give me a humble, friendly person any day of the week.
period.
~jeff
got your pm. I'm having pc troubles so I can't reply. I'll try to respond to your question on red man's
on Monday. Sorry.
aconte (Tony)
<< <i>Ever get the feeling on these boards that Joe O. is the basketball ref, and Rasheed Wallace (Dav) is in his face???????? >>
I mentioned this on Friday and .............well we now know................
The one part I don't understand about Dav is this:
Jim apparently does very well in having vast resources to rely on. Usually, those with vast resources have acquired them via a very PROFESSIONAL work ethic, demeanor, mannorism, and style. This is the rub. You don't become successful by airing out dirty laundry in front of an audience that includes every joe-schmoe around.
A truely PROFESSIONAL person would conduct themselves by going behind the scenes, closing doors, and using tools like PRIVATE EMAILS, PRIVATE PHONE CALLS, etc. to get a concensous from the big players on this board and then formulate a strategy from there.
I have to admit that Dav's approach on these boards has, IMO, hurt his cause. For example MS is quite an expert on many card and PSA issues but doesn't come off like PSA owes him the world. He's intelligent in his conversation..........hence respect.
There's a right way and a wrong way to pursue Dav's issues. And in the end, if he is not satisfied with answers regardless of XXXXX PSA cards, WIWAG, etc., he needs to move on. If I'm passionate about an issue and can't nudge it the way I think it should be or could be, I'll need then to think outside-the-box and move on.
BOTR
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
<< <i>Really dont care either way. I wont miss him. He never said anything I thought was important or insightful. Just alot of horn blowing and "look at me" posturing. >>
Thanks Bob. You saved me a few keystrokes by typing it for me!
JEB.
<< <i>
<< <i> Jim's really not a bad guy, he's very passionate about his collection, and sometimes that passion rubs others the wrong way.Q]
>>
Thanks JEB & GGG.Jay, you saved me a few keystrokes by typing it for me!
That's two Pepe's Pies for Jeb and Jay!
BTW- I see that someone finally hit the over 50% on the Pepe master set.
My Auctions
Jim has a great collection of PSA cards, and he has worked very hard on it. But he has certainly stepped on toes along the way, and he does seem to have a way to be like a bull in a china shop.
From others posts that I couldn't find, it sems that Dav's problems with Joe began when The registry board wouldn't let him put cards in his set taht were still registered in other sets, w/o checking with the other person first.
I see on the SGC board linked in an earlier post that Dav says that GAI and SGC grade better than PSA, and that he might consider switching his collection. Below I found some links from over a year ago where Dav said he wouldn't deal with any dealers who sold GAI, and that Joe Orlando gave such better customer service than Rocch. I found them very interesting.
Dav says Joe is much better than Rocchi
Dav threatens dealers who deal with GAI
Let's cut through the chase and forget about WIWAG, grading accuracy, or whatever for a second...
It is obvious Jim (Dav) wants his collection to remain in PSA holders. He didn't come on this board to promote another grading company at the expense of PSA or to announce he's crossing over his collection. There is no doubt where his loyalties are...they are with PSA. If you look past his negativity for a moment and really, really read his posts on this board and the SGC board, I think you'll realize this as well.
If I am the President of a company and one of my biggest clients has a problem with me, my employees, or my company in general, well guess what....I am going to resolve the problem...after meeting/calling the customer...he/she is going to walk away satisfied or at least have a game plan for satisfying the customer in the long term. He's a customer and the customer is always right, even if it means kissing his ---, customer service rule #1, end of discussion IMO.
There's too much of a us against them in this hobby. The bottom line is we all collect cards not labels. Don't mean to sound corny here but if your thing is PSA, SGC, BVG, or whatever, then I hope your happy with the service and your cards.
Silver Coins
e-bay ID: grilloj39
e-mail: grilloj39@gmail.com