Collectors that I respect (i.e. : Frank Bakka) feel that Dav should be cut some slack. But my over-riding feeling is that the negative energy (sorry if anyone's hippy-dippy meter has gone into the red zone) that he constantly brought to these boards did nobody any favors.
Baseball HOF Autographs Topps Baseball 1967 Mike Payne's 300 Great Cards MVPs in their MVP years and T206???
I must agree with BigKidAtHeart's assessment of Dav - many times when he has posted , he always seemed to write something that really irritated me to no end........and I always wanted to respond like ToppGun does ( he must be out of the country now) , but I hate to get into these cat fights of war of words ! I AM JUST A SMALL TIME COLLECTOR who doesn't need to be reminded that my 60's or 70's or 80's set is not difficult to complete and is not truely Vintage ! Maybe so , but why rub our noses in making us feel insignificant ! I am not a super knowledgeable collector , but do wish I could contribute the info that so many of you do ! Dav , I have been reading these boards for over a year and a half , and I,m still waiting to read some of your knowledge about our great Hobby ! I wish you the best in continuing your noble quest of completing so many Vintage sets ! I read these boards to relieve stress , they are very relaxing for me ! There , I feel much better already ! LET there be peace on the Boards ! Best to all ! Robby
Collect 1964 Topps Baseball 1963 Fleer Lou Brock Master Set
Why someone like Jim would countinue to let his mind be poisoned by anti-PSA dealers is beyond me. Hopefully he'll be able to put all the B/S aside and just enjoy the hobby again.
The ironic part is that Jim was calling for Toppsgun to be banned just a few days ago. Just goes to show how far out of touch with reality davalillo got. The moral of the story is not to mess with Toppsgun.
I think that Joe's decision to boot Jim was a big mistake. I will miss his posts.
Jim has the courage to speak his mind and that is why I think he rubbed certain people the wrong way.
Jim showed a lot of class by not resorting to childish and personal attacks as some others have (including some in this thread).
When I see any board member resort to those tactics, I simple ignore any messages that they post in the future. I just don't care to read their comments anymore.
whether you agree with Joe's banning of Jim or not (which i do personally), this is still a private message board. we went through the same thing with BOTN
Good riddance! He has been a consistent rumor monger. Rregardless of how knowledgable he is, he is bad for our hobby as he continues to mislead collectors with his rumor spreading.
<< <i>Good riddance! He has been a consistent rumor monger. Rregardless of how knowledgable he is, he is bad for our hobby as he continues to mislead collectors with his rumor spreading. >>
If that's true you and others put WAY to much stock in what he says. Jim is just todays man to slam. We all need to go get laid and stop the insanity. That said, I'm going to get laid......and than
There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"
Put me squarely in the Davalillo camp. This punishment does not fit the crime.
I don't think anyone can say here that Jim did any of his PSA questioning maliciously. It's apparent to me no one wants to improve the situation at PSA more than he. And, while Joe has been responding to Jim's comments as of late, for a long time Jim brought up many things that were never responded to. Even now the whole WIWAG thing is as much an urban legend as factual. Other questions about PSA's workings have been questioned without response.
Seems the Jim haters like this "he crapped in Joe's living room" slogan. Well, maybe there is some truth to that. But here's a rebuttal: it's also very possible that the situation is more like a guy getting kicked off the Hindenberg for having the gall to run around with a NO SMOKING sign. It's more probable that it's a little of both, but how does that merit expulsion?
Joe said that Jim could just call him at anytime. But Joe could pick up the phone too. Calling one of your biggest clients to chew the fat isn't the worst idea management can do.
I avoid fights on this board religiously, and I almost didn't bother to respond because this discussion, like many in the past, is doomed. Nothing will come of it. But since we seem to be having a roll call vote, I felt compelled to respond.
Makes me wonder sometimes why I call myself PurelyPSA.
There are two kinds of client: the heavy submitters and the heavy buyers. One doesn't exist without the other. Just because Dav probably doesn't beat out DSL for submissions doesn't mean he's not incredibly important. Compounding that would be the PR bump a company like PSA could get highlighting a guy with a collection like Jim's. Makes a lot more sense doing whatever's necessary to clear up situations such as this than it is to just wish it all away.
Just got back and saw the email that Jim sent me and just read through the thread. Offline Jim is a great guy to deal with...in fact...he is as rock solid as they come. Once Jim gives you his word regarding a deal, he is good for it...even though his bonus check may not come in for another couple of months...ask Vargha.
I hope cooler heads will prevail and this conflict can be resolved between Davalillo and Joe O. I would like to see Davalillo back on the boards.
Love him or Hate him...he did bring up some interesting points for all of us to think about.
<< <i>Is Jim really one of PSA biggest clients? I find that extremely hard to believe >>
BOTR - The guy has over 20,000 PSA cards incl many high end players. His collection is bigger and more divesified then virtually everyone, dealers incl. Thats very impressive...jay
When Jim discussed the salaries of PSA graders on the board, he was attacked.
Well, guess who said the following:
"There used to be 8 graders making over $100,000 a year at PSA. That tells you how good those people were. Now most of them have come over here."
That was Mike Baker, formerly of PSA, now of GAI, and he said it today (while he was pregrading collector-grade T206s and normally taking about 40 seconds apiece to do so).
Now, why should Jim have been blamed for saying much the same thing?
Excellent advice offered last night! Makes for a much happier Sunday.
aconte >>
Well it's now Sunday morning and I feel . I think the time BOTN was booted my Joey was concieved? Hmmmm?
The one good thing I can say about this thread is I'm very happy to see there are people that seem to understand Jim is not the malicous person he is made out to be. Most that trash Jim I don't really know anyway so their opinions, while appreciated don't mean much to me because I'm not sure they really know as much as they think they do.
I consider anything said in this forum to be harmless. It's all just talk between hobby enthusiast. When we make it more than that WE are acting like children. I make this mistake myself all of the time and I think many are doing that in this case.
There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"
i found so loose change so i will give my 2 cents worth.
i know i would rather anyday read a post from jim (davalillo) than to read the numerous post about PRO grading company and the ebay scammer of the day, and i just e-mail him and the top 3 bidders to let them know what is going on.i will reply with his e-mail.
he may be over the top at times but when you have invested as much money as him i say so be it. also he rubs people the wrong way but a lot has to do with the amount of cards he has and the money he spends to buy them. i speculate he spends more on cards a year than most people make, so some of what people call arrogance is just jealousy.
as far a handling the situation professionaly and behind closed doors is a great ideal, but on the phone you can get the run around in the public forum you get answers.
as far as him crossing his collection over i don't think it matters as PSA gets paid only when they grade the cards and his money has been received and more than likely spent by now. 20,000 cards in any grade is impressive, and it easy to say you only have a 7.67 grade over all. again its easy to judge when you don't have a million in cards.good luck on your card adventures
To the Jim(Dav) issue. I think this whole idea of kicking him off is a tradgedy. Just because Jim voiced his opinions in a rather robust way is not a reason to ban him from this FORUM------------------------------------a public meeting or assembly for open discussion------------------------ users submit postings for ALL to read and discussion ensues---------- a public meeting place for open discussion. These were definitions in my dictionary and I know are debatable meanings. The bottom line this is supposed to be open discussion. Not discussion that PSA approves and censors. We are not in a third world country here. As long as the content is not vulger we should be able to discuss it if we choose. I did not always agree with Jim but did not want him off here. I beleive he wants PSA to be a better company. I beleive still today he wants PSA to be a better company. If PSA does not want to be a better company than that is a foolish strategy. We all can improve in one way or another. Jim did not invest in over 20,000 slabs so he could try and hurt his investment and although most of us would have used a differant approach I have to commend Jim for having the courage of his convictions. I for one will now think twice about posting here. In todays day and age I dont think any company can afford to lose customer base. If they keep dropping by the wayside sooner than later so will the company. I just spent 15,000.00 with a fellow member here this past week and now am wondering if I did the right thing. I am going to take a step back and ponder this move by PSA and try to figure out if this is a company that I want to do business with in the future. Maybe they dont want me and maybe they do. I wouldnt know because they have not told me one way or another. They did tell Jim though and if I were in his shoes I would delete my sets and go to a company that was more user friendly. It may be costly to reslab or start over but he could always sell some key cards to help fund it. Maybe Joe will call Jim and work this out or maybe Jim will call Joe. I doubt it because they both seen to be pretty stuborn about their views. On another note I got a question.
Where is Toppsgun??? I would of thought he would have had a field day with this thread.
<< <i>The ironic part is that Jim was calling for Toppsgun to be banned just a few days ago. Just goes to show how far out of touch with reality davalillo got. The moral of the story is not to mess with Toppsgun. >>
since toppsgun has not shown up lately, can we assume that it is possible that they both got the boot? has anyone heard anything from him since this all occured?
<<as far a handling the situation professionaly and behind closed doors is a great ideal, but on the phone you can get the run around in the public forum you get answers>>
This may be true in some cases but in a public forum you can also get the boot! I do not disagree with everything that Jim(Davalillo) said or says but i do very strongly disagree with the way he went about airing the "dirty laundry" on this public forum. I just think Jim could have handled the situation more professionaly behind closed doors and if he wanted to make his information public thats great but he should have been prepaired to name names and provide facts other that the he said she said type of things he posted.
I AM NOT A DAVALILLO HATER but the he said she said kind of rumors drive me nuts! Provide facts and provide names and i think everyone on this board would love to hear what Jim has to say.
re 1966 claude raymond. no where is it written the card to be a variation. it is however an oversight by the photographer or Topps.given raymond has 2 unzippered Topps cards unlike anyone in history makes the seller's description accurate.why would this be a variation?. there is no card #586 with the guy's zipper in the position it belongs.dont get excited
"I agree with RobE agreeing with BKAH agreeing with GGG." You all also saved me a few keystrokes. His "holier than thou" attitude makes collecting a little less fun.
Justin
Currently collecting the Nolan Ryan Basic and Topps Player sets.
I would agree with what many are saying here. I do not reply to many threads, but would often ask my self why can't we just all grow up. Jim ,due to the size of his PSA collection ,is a target of some scrutiny by other members of this board. How many times has a thread he started turned into a shouting match between two people like a couple of kids on the playground......
Some times he had good points to make, other times, I though he was just trying to stir up a heated message post with unsubstantiated rumors. Either way since ZARDOZ took a vacation, Dav's post have created the most action here.......
We may never know the whole reason for him being invited to leave the boards, but to all of US out there......... too often these "back and forths" are going to far. Can't we all work to just get along a little better!
Dave
Dave Johnson- Big Red Country-Nebraska Collector of Vintage Golf cards! Let me know what you might have.
Hopefully Joe Orlando will reconsider this decision as I believe it to be a bad one for PSA and the Graded Card hobby..With no offense to Charlie Merkel or John Branca - Jim Crandell is the best in my book!!..I consider Jim a friend first, a customer second..Jim has always treated me well, with respect, and courtesy..He has never lied to me, bullied me, colluded with other collectors against me, or particiapted in bid-rigging in my auctions..He is a man of his word as he has never backed out of a deal and has always paid for cards he had on hold.. I wish I could say the same for a few of the "name" collectors..Other than 1 advanced collector from NYC, Jim is the only collector who's invited me into their home to view his impressive collection..He really does enjoy this hobby and is very passionate about his collection..
I believe Jim may have been mislead by a couple of bitter, disgruntled ex-PSA dealers who have baited him with bad information, lies, and rumors..You would think these guys would spend more time in the day to day activities of their business, but I guess non PSA dealers have plenty of excess time on their hands..
Please, PSA work this out with Jim..Losing him would be a sad day for the hobby..
Just so I'm not called two-faced. I posted the following on the SGC boards about what's been happening here.
"As somebody who participates regularly on the PSA board I can tell you that a majority of "Dav Haters" are people that are relatively clueless at best about what Jim says. I include myself in that group. That said, I have stood up against "outing" Jim because all of us have partial knowledge of the entire situation. In my world partial knowledge never leads to the correct conclusion. This argument works both for and against Jim. i don't know that Jim has full knowledge about the things he says either. But I do know he's a stand-up guy.
Most members have focused more on the way his message is delivered rather than the facts, which they are all very short on. Most will never get over the way the see Jim. It's a battle he can never win in any forum. Especially when the great OZ speaks out against him.
I have nothing against Joe Orlando personally. My mother always taught me to see the good in people and I'm try to do just that. I will assume that if Joe really banned Jim it is for a reason he considers to important. Joe certainly can do as he see's fit without explananation to any of us. It's his forum. In fact, Joe would probably do best by ignoring everything said on these forums. As he has stated before, the members of the forum represent approximately 1% of PSA overall business (or something to that affect). If that's true we are rather insignificant and banning Jim for his comments is irrelevant.
I just don't get the bickering or how any of us have the time to dislike so much."
There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"
A rumor can travel half way around the world before the truth get's up and puts on it's shoes.
mislead by a couple of bitter, disgruntled ex-PSA dealers who have baited him with bad information, lies, and rumors..You would think these guys would spend more time in the day to day activities of their business, but I guess non PSA dealers have plenty of excess time on their hands..
I hope there are some well deserved sitting in the penalty box.
"Where is Toppsgun??? I would of thought he would have had a field day with this thread."
"since toppsgun has not shown up lately, can we assume that it is possible that they both got the boot? has anyone heard anything from him since this all occured?
I have not been banned (that I know of) and I have no reason to pile on and flaunt. I had nothing to do with the decision to ban Davalillo, but I, along with many others apparently, feel vindicated by the result.
Some people think this board is a self-policing, self-regulating democracy. On the contrary, I (correctly) view it as a benevolent dictatorship.
I don't have a problem with Davalillo, or his posts.
His main problem was making a bad judgment call, by giving too much credence to the irrational rantings, of our hobby's version of the Iraqi Information Minister, who was banned from these boards some time ago.
<< <i> Please, PSA work this out with Jim..Losing him would be a sad day for the hobby.. >>
Great sentiment Steve. You can agree or disagree with Jim, but Joe seems to be making more people upset than it is worth by banning him. Jim and Joe need to talk this out, and Joe, as the owner of the company, should make the first move, in my opinion. People may never agree completely, but should at least come to an agreement to agree to disagree. The idea of banning people from the boards for reasons other than obscenity, or being uncivil, does more to hurt PSA than help them, in my opinion. I don't see where Dav's posts have done anything to turn people off of PSA. At least not nearly as much as banning him.
I don't see where Dav's posts have done anything to turn people off of PSA
Well, announcing possible half-point grading, the WIWAG mess, graders leaving PSA and a major collector switching to GAI certainly are not going to turn people on to PSA. Still, I do not agree with the ban. I bet that each one of us here has at least once voiced some criticism of PSA. With 20,000 PSA cards, Jim's earned the right to make some noise.
I don't post that often on this board, but I do read many of the threads. I think Davillio was good for this board.
In all my dealings with Jim, he has been nothing but a gentleman. I understand many don't agree with some of his thoughts, but he sure makes the boards interesting. I personally think those that who don't like him are jealous. He has the passion for collecting like we all do, only on a grander scale.
Bring him back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, otherwise we're in for a much less interesting forum!!!!!!!!
Tom
I collect Vintage Hockey cards in PSA 8 or better.
BTW, here are some of the ground rules for this Forum:
"You agree that you will not use our forums to post any material, or links to any material, which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law."
I don't see where Jim violated any of these guidelines.
<< <i>I personally think those that who don't like him are jealous. >>
I don't believe that jealousy is it. Lots of people have great collections, including King Kellog, Fogel, Stump, Frank, etc. but they don't engender the emotions that Jim does. And it is not because he is critical of PSA either. It is more the manner in which deals with people who question something he says or do things he disagrees with, I think. Boycotting dealers who sell GAI is an example. Asserting how easy it would be to complete 100 sets in 2 years, and denigrating others who complete a collection is another.
But I still disagree strongly with his being banned. As many have said, he is always good to his word, and never posted offensive, hateful, or harrassing posts. And he has put a tremendous efffort into his collection.
Those collectors treat others with respect and they in turn get respect. I dont understand why davalillo cant show the same courtesy that he demands from others. He's like the Bobby Knight of card collecting.
Mantlefan, I could not agree more. Now as to where I stand, I am neither a Dav hater or supporter. As a matter of fact I disagree strongly with Dav's view that Ebay is bad idea, however I do not believe banning Dav is the answer. Censoreship in any form is wrong, in my opinion the only solution here is for the two feuding paties to sit down and talk. Keep in mind I would take this stance if it were any member of this community that had been banned.
The greatest problem facing these boards every day are the personal attacks its members fling at each other over the dumbest things. I just can't see where in any situtaion it is appropriate to call someone a "jerk" or "moron" (unless they are a Yankee or Redsox fan, than they deserve it).
Anyway tha's my 2 cents, and you can keep the change...
Gregory Voit AKA.. Ebay - mpn2gwvputty Ratso of the Booze Junkies MC
I just want to second what Steve said about Jim coming through on cards that were set aside for him. I set aside nearly $20,000 worth of cards from the breakup of my 1951 Bowman set for promise to pay at a later date. Jim came through exactly as he said.
This whole debacle is rather ridiculous. Who are we really kidding.
Dav has a million dollar plus PSA collection. Obviously, he wants to see PSA become a better company. Everyone may not have agreed with his opinions, but can you ever get 100% agreement about anyones opinions?
From a business point of view, it doesn't exactly create alot of goodwill for PSA. Companies usually listen to what their biggest customers have to say; they don't want to kick them out.
Toppsgun, Good point, I was a little fired up. To some extent censorship will always exist as a counter-balance to those who cannot or will not demonstrate self-restraint. To me it may not be that I disagree with somone's message but I reserve the right to disaprove of how they present it, from my perspective Davallilo did not cross that line. Perhaps he was arrogant in his tone at times, however I think he was only speaking out of pride for what he has accomplished, I do not know him well enough to judge.
Gregory Voit AKA.. Ebay - mpn2gwvputty Ratso of the Booze Junkies MC
Comments
Topps Baseball 1967
Mike Payne's 300 Great Cards
MVPs in their MVP years
and T206???
1963 Fleer
Lou Brock Master Set
Jim has the courage to speak his mind and that is why I think he rubbed certain people the wrong way.
Jim showed a lot of class by not resorting to childish and personal attacks as some others have (including some in this thread).
When I see any board member resort to those tactics, I simple ignore any messages that they post in the future. I just don't care to read their comments anymore.
gaspipe26 said it all!
<< <i>Good riddance! He has been a consistent rumor monger. Rregardless of how knowledgable he is, he is bad for our hobby as he continues to mislead collectors with his rumor spreading. >>
If that's true you and others put WAY to much stock in what he says. Jim is just todays man to slam. We all need to go get laid and stop the insanity. That said, I'm going to get laid......and than
I don't think anyone can say here that Jim did any of his PSA questioning maliciously. It's apparent to me no one wants to improve the situation at PSA more than he. And, while Joe has been responding to Jim's comments as of late, for a long time Jim brought up many things that were never responded to. Even now the whole WIWAG thing is as much an urban legend as factual. Other questions about PSA's workings have been questioned without response.
Seems the Jim haters like this "he crapped in Joe's living room" slogan. Well, maybe there is some truth to that. But here's a rebuttal: it's also very possible that the situation is more like a guy getting kicked off the Hindenberg for having the gall to run around with a NO SMOKING sign. It's more probable that it's a little of both, but how does that merit expulsion?
Joe said that Jim could just call him at anytime. But Joe could pick up the phone too. Calling one of your biggest clients to chew the fat isn't the worst idea management can do.
I avoid fights on this board religiously, and I almost didn't bother to respond because this discussion, like many in the past, is doomed. Nothing will come of it. But since we seem to be having a roll call vote, I felt compelled to respond.
Makes me wonder sometimes why I call myself PurelyPSA.
Steve
<< <i>Calling one of your biggest clients to chew the fat isn't the worst idea management can do. >>
Is Jim really one of PSA biggest clients? I find that extremely hard to believe.
BOTR
I hope cooler heads will prevail and this conflict can be resolved between Davalillo and Joe O. I would like to see Davalillo back on the boards.
Love him or Hate him...he did bring up some interesting points for all of us to think about.
John
<< <i>Is Jim really one of PSA biggest clients? I find that extremely hard to believe >>
BOTR - The guy has over 20,000 PSA cards incl many high end players. His collection is bigger and more divesified then virtually everyone, dealers incl. Thats very impressive...jay
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
Well, guess who said the following:
"There used to be 8 graders making over $100,000 a year at PSA. That tells you how good those people were. Now most of them have come over here."
That was Mike Baker, formerly of PSA, now of GAI, and he said it today (while he was pregrading collector-grade T206s and normally taking about 40 seconds apiece to do so).
Now, why should Jim have been blamed for saying much the same thing?
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
Groucho Marx
Excellent advice offered last night! Makes for a much happier
Sunday.
aconte
<< <i>gosoxbosox,
Excellent advice offered last night! Makes for a much happier
Sunday.
aconte >>
Well it's now Sunday morning and I feel
The one good thing I can say about this thread is I'm very happy to see there are people that seem to understand Jim is not the malicous person he is made out to be. Most that trash Jim I don't really know anyway so their opinions, while appreciated don't mean much to me because I'm not sure they really know as much as they think they do.
I consider anything said in this forum to be harmless. It's all just talk between hobby enthusiast. When we make it more than that WE are acting like children. I make this mistake myself all of the time and I think many are doing that in this case.
i know i would rather anyday read a post from jim (davalillo) than to read the numerous post about PRO grading company and the ebay scammer of the day, and i just e-mail him and the top 3 bidders to let them know what is going on.i will reply with his e-mail.
he may be over the top at times but when you have invested as much money as him i say so be it. also he rubs people the wrong way but a lot has to do with the amount of cards he has and the money he spends to buy them. i speculate he spends more on cards a year than most people make, so some of what people call arrogance is just jealousy.
as far a handling the situation professionaly and behind closed doors is a great ideal, but on the phone you can get the run around in the public forum you get answers.
as far as him crossing his collection over i don't think it matters as PSA gets paid only when they grade the cards and his money has been received and more than likely spent by now. 20,000 cards in any grade is impressive, and it easy to say you only have a 7.67 grade over all. again its easy to judge when you don't have a million in cards.good luck on your card adventures
......fab4...........
.........fab4...........
Great advice!!
To the Jim(Dav) issue. I think this whole idea of kicking him off is a tradgedy. Just because Jim voiced his opinions in a rather robust way is not a reason to ban him from this FORUM------------------------------------a public meeting or assembly for open discussion------------------------ users submit postings for ALL to read and discussion ensues---------- a public meeting place for open discussion.
These were definitions in my dictionary and I know are debatable meanings. The bottom line this is supposed to be open discussion. Not discussion that PSA approves and censors. We are not in a third world country here. As long as the content is not vulger we should be able to discuss it if we choose. I did not always agree with Jim but did not want him off here. I beleive he wants PSA to be a better company. I beleive still today he wants PSA to be a better company. If PSA does not want to be a better company than that is a foolish strategy. We all can improve in one way or another. Jim did not invest in over 20,000 slabs so he could try and hurt his investment and although most of us would have used a differant approach I have to commend Jim for having the courage of his convictions. I for one will now think twice about posting here. In todays day and age I dont think any company can afford to lose customer base. If they keep dropping by the wayside sooner than later so will the company. I just spent 15,000.00 with a fellow member here this past week and now am wondering if I did the right thing. I am going to take a step back and ponder this move by PSA and try to figure out if this is a company that I want to do business with in the future. Maybe they dont want me and maybe they do. I wouldnt know because they have not told me one way or another. They did tell Jim though and if I were in his shoes I would delete my sets and go to a company that was more user friendly. It may be costly to reslab or start over but he could always sell some key cards to help fund it. Maybe Joe will call Jim and work this out or maybe Jim will call Joe. I doubt it because they both seen to be pretty stuborn about their views. On another note I got a question.
Where is Toppsgun??? I would of thought he would have had a field day with this thread.
Dave Jacobs
<< <i>The ironic part is that Jim was calling for Toppsgun to be banned just a few days ago. Just goes to show how far out of touch with reality davalillo got. The moral of the story is not to mess with Toppsgun. >>
since toppsgun has not shown up lately, can we assume that it is possible that they both got the boot? has anyone heard anything from him since this all occured?
<<as far a handling the situation professionaly and behind closed doors is a great ideal, but on the phone you can get the run around in the public forum you get answers>>
This may be true in some cases but in a public forum you can also get the boot! I do not disagree with everything that Jim(Davalillo) said or says but i do very strongly disagree with the way he went about airing the "dirty laundry" on this public forum. I just think Jim could have handled the situation more professionaly behind closed doors and if he wanted to make his information public thats great but he should have been prepaired to name names and provide facts other that the he said she said type of things he posted.
I AM NOT A DAVALILLO HATER but the he said she said kind of rumors drive me nuts! Provide facts and provide names and i think everyone on this board would love to hear what Jim has to say.
Paul.
no where is it written the card to be a variation.
it is however an oversight by the photographer
or Topps.given raymond has 2 unzippered Topps
cards unlike anyone in history makes the seller's
description accurate.why would this be a variation?.
there is no card #586 with the guy's zipper in the
position it belongs.dont get excited
Justin
NAXCOM
can we get a picture of the other unzippered variation?
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
Some times he had good points to make, other times, I though he was just trying to stir up a heated message post with unsubstantiated rumors. Either way since ZARDOZ took a vacation, Dav's post have created the most action here.......
We may never know the whole reason for him being invited to leave the boards, but to all of US out there......... too often these "back and forths" are going to far. Can't we all work to just get along a little better!
Dave
Collector of Vintage Golf cards! Let me know what you might have.
I believe Jim may have been mislead by a couple of bitter, disgruntled ex-PSA dealers who have baited him with bad information, lies, and rumors..You would think these guys would spend more time in the day to day activities of their business, but I guess non PSA dealers have plenty of excess time on their hands..
Please, PSA work this out with Jim..Losing him would be a sad day for the hobby..
set and this 1966 topps is NOT a variation.no one
but you suggested such.
"As somebody who participates regularly on the PSA board I can tell you that a majority of "Dav Haters" are people that are relatively clueless at best about what Jim says. I include myself in that group. That said, I have stood up against "outing" Jim because all of us have partial knowledge of the entire situation. In my world partial knowledge never leads to the correct conclusion. This argument works both for and against Jim. i don't know that Jim has full knowledge about the things he says either. But I do know he's a stand-up guy.
Most members have focused more on the way his message is delivered rather than the facts, which they are all very short on. Most will never get over the way the see Jim. It's a battle he can never win in any forum. Especially when the great OZ speaks out against him.
I have nothing against Joe Orlando personally. My mother always taught me to see the good in people and I'm try to do just that. I will assume that if Joe really banned Jim it is for a reason he considers to important. Joe certainly can do as he see's fit without explananation to any of us. It's his forum. In fact, Joe would probably do best by ignoring everything said on these forums. As he has stated before, the members of the forum represent approximately 1% of PSA overall business (or something to that affect). If that's true we are rather insignificant and banning Jim for his comments is irrelevant.
I just don't get the bickering or how any of us have the time to dislike so much."
than please explain your icon logo.
<< <i>I just don't get the bickering or how any of us have the time to dislike so much
than please explain your icon logo. >>
Isn't this understood universally? Besides that, as part of our last deal I will complete the transaction by uploading my new icon on the 15th.
All else aside, I'm a man of my word.
and last year proved with talent they still blew.
mislead by a couple of bitter, disgruntled ex-PSA dealers who have baited him with bad information, lies, and rumors..You would think these guys would spend more time in the day to day activities of their business, but I guess non PSA dealers have plenty of excess time on their hands..
I hope there are some well deserved sitting in the penalty box.
My Auctions
"since toppsgun has not shown up lately, can we assume that it is possible that they both got the boot? has anyone heard anything from him since this all occured?
I have not been banned (that I know of) and I have no reason to pile on and flaunt. I had nothing to do with the decision to ban Davalillo, but I, along with many others apparently, feel vindicated by the result.
Some people think this board is a self-policing, self-regulating democracy. On the contrary, I (correctly) view it as a benevolent dictatorship.
Long live the king!
<< <i>Some people think this board is a self-policing, self-regulating democracy. On the contrary, I (correctly) view it as a benevolent dictatorship.
Long live the king! >>
I don't have a problem with Davalillo, or his posts.
His main problem was making a bad judgment call,
by giving too much credence to the irrational rantings,
of our hobby's version of the Iraqi Information Minister,
who was banned from these boards some time ago.
blah blah blah ... WIWIG ... blah blah blah ... PSA ...
blah blah blah ..... GAI ....... blah blah blah ... Joe ...
Bring back Davalillo, or I'll be forced to put a Care Bear in my sig line.
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
<< <i>Bring back Davalillo, or I'll be forced to put a Care Bear in my sig line. >>
This may be just the threatt that forces Joe to bring'em back!!! It's a frightening thought.
<< <i>
Please, PSA work this out with Jim..Losing him would be a sad day for the hobby.. >>
Great sentiment Steve. You can agree or disagree with Jim, but Joe seems to be making more people upset than it is worth by banning him. Jim and Joe need to talk this out, and Joe, as the owner of the company, should make the first move, in my opinion. People may never agree completely, but should at least come to an agreement to agree to disagree. The idea of banning people from the boards for reasons other than obscenity, or being uncivil, does more to hurt PSA than help them, in my opinion. I don't see where Dav's posts have done anything to turn people off of PSA. At least not nearly as much as banning him.
Well, announcing possible half-point grading, the WIWAG mess, graders leaving PSA and a major collector switching to GAI certainly are not going to turn people on to PSA. Still, I do not agree with the ban. I bet that each one of us here has at least once voiced some criticism of PSA. With 20,000 PSA cards, Jim's earned the right to make some noise.
Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
In all my dealings with Jim, he has been nothing but a gentleman. I understand many don't agree with some of his thoughts, but he sure makes the boards interesting. I personally think those that who don't like him are jealous. He has the passion for collecting like we all do, only on a grander scale.
Bring him back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, otherwise we're in for a much less interesting forum!!!!!!!!
Tom
"You agree that you will not use our forums to post any material, or links to any material, which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law."
I don't see where Jim violated any of these guidelines.
Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
<< <i>I personally think those that who don't like him are jealous. >>
I don't believe that jealousy is it. Lots of people have great collections, including King Kellog, Fogel, Stump, Frank, etc. but they don't engender the emotions that Jim does. And it is not because he is critical of PSA either. It is more the manner in which deals with people who question something he says or do things he disagrees with, I think. Boycotting dealers who sell GAI is an example. Asserting how easy it would be to complete 100 sets in 2 years, and denigrating others who complete a collection is another.
But I still disagree strongly with his being banned. As many have said, he is always good to his word, and never posted offensive, hateful, or harrassing posts. And he has put a tremendous efffort into his collection.
The greatest problem facing these boards every day are the personal attacks its members fling at each other over the dumbest things. I just can't see where in any situtaion it is appropriate to call someone a "jerk" or "moron" (unless they are a Yankee or Redsox fan, than they deserve it).
Anyway tha's my 2 cents, and you can keep the change...
AKA..
Ebay - mpn2gwvputty
Ratso of the Booze Junkies MC
<< <i>He's like the Bobby Knight of card collecting. >>
He might want to rethink that in light of the following question.
Does that include:
1) racial slurs?
2) yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater?
Freedom is not absolute. There are boundaries for the common good and private organizations are free from enforced fiat, but with limitations.
Dav has a million dollar plus PSA collection. Obviously, he wants to see PSA become a better company. Everyone may not have agreed with his opinions, but can you ever get 100% agreement about anyones opinions?
From a business point of view, it doesn't exactly create alot of goodwill for PSA. Companies usually listen to what their biggest customers have to say; they don't want to kick them out.
AKA..
Ebay - mpn2gwvputty
Ratso of the Booze Junkies MC