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Do you prefer your spots on PCGS coins natural or doctored??

LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I'm amazed at the number of high grade PCGS IHC's that have spots either partially or completely scratched away. It always makes me wonder what ELSE has been done to the coin. I prefer my spots natural and left alone - how about you?? The first pic is PCGS MS65R, the second PCGS P64Cam.

image

image
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.

Comments

  • mdwoodsmdwoods Posts: 5,544 ✭✭✭
    Maybe those are die polish lines. image
    National Register Of Big Trees

    We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    That first one looks like a mole. It's human nature, you see a chunk of goo on the coin and you are compelled to start picking at it.
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    I prefer mine spotless. Looks like a couple of coins made the slab but shouldn't have. What else do they miss, do you really want to know?
  • NewmismatistNewmismatist Posts: 1,802 ✭✭


    << <i>I'm amazed at the number of high grade PCGS IHC's that have spots either partially or completely scratched away. It always makes me wonder what ELSE has been done to the coin. I prefer my spots natural and left alone - how about you?? The first pic is PCGS MS65R, the second PCGS P64Cam. >>



    Lakes

    I think what you're seeing is the difference between a radiologist who looks at things and a plastic surgeon who fixes those blemishes. image
    Collecting eye-appealing Proof and MS Indian Head Cents, 1858 Flying Eagle and IHC patterns and beautiful toned coins.

    “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
    Newmismatist
  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭
    I prefer spots on........somebody else's coins.
    But if I had to have one I'd take one that hadn't been scratched & picked at.
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ron:

    If a plastic surgeon did those coins, he'd better have a good malpractice policy. Do you work on contingency cases??imageimage
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I prefer coins without spots on them...image

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I'm amazed at the number of high grade PCGS IHC's that have spots either partially or completely scratched away. It always makes me wonder what ELSE has been done to the coin. I prefer my spots natural and left alone - how about you?? The first pic is PCGS MS65R, the second PCGS P64Cam. >>



    Lakes

    I think what you're seeing is the difference between a radiologist who looks at things and a plastic surgeon who fixes those blemishes. image >>



    imageimageimage
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's the mother of all craters, this on a 8K PCGS 64R coin. You have to give the doctor credit on this one - the crater is so big, you just can't believe it's not a planchet defect - maybe a small track-hoe was used??imageimage

    image

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    Looks like one of my kidney stones.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I prefer that bad spots are removed, but only if properly done. Everytime I hear some bozo tell me about how he removes spots with a pin under a microscope, it really pisses me off. (Nothing personal, you know who!)
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • clw54clw54 Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭
    I'd never thought about it, but it makes sense a radiologist would see details the rest of us might miss.
  • BarryBarry Posts: 10,100 ✭✭✭
    Further proof that the model for those coins was Cindy Crawford's great-great-grandmother.
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'd never thought about it, but it makes sense a radiologist would see details the rest of us might miss. >>




    That's right, radiologists rule! Keep those scalpel-jockey's aways from our coins.image
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570 ✭
    I prefer no spots, but since I don't have a choice I like them natural.

    image
    image
    My posts viewed image times
    since 8/1/6
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MANOFCOINS;

    Usually one can tell with the naked eye. If the spot has been completely removed, there will be an alteration of the coins surface that is a different color than the rest of the coin. I can see it best just by rotating the coin in light and looking for those areas w/o a loupe. The rest are seen with a 3X or 6X loupe. I use higher mag. only for photographic purposes (10X and 30X). If you use a macro lense then magnify the image, there is not enough signal and the picture looks "pixely".
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • NewmismatistNewmismatist Posts: 1,802 ✭✭


    << <i>Ron:

    If a plastic surgeon did those coins, he'd better have a good malpractice policy. Do you work on contingency cases??imageimage >>



    image

    Tim, You betcha image BTW - who do I have to sue? image
    Collecting eye-appealing Proof and MS Indian Head Cents, 1858 Flying Eagle and IHC patterns and beautiful toned coins.

    “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
    Newmismatist
  • toothpullertoothpuller Posts: 600 ✭


    I could never look at my IHCs at 30x. The pain and suffering would be too much to bear. Possibly even loss of consortium would apply. Would I have a case?


    imageimage
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,776 ✭✭✭✭
    Yep, I had an NGC slabbed coin with a spot scratched off of the field. I didn't recognize it with the naked eye, but once I saw it with a loope, it became the instant focal point of the coin everytime I looked at it.

    image

    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Shamika:

    I know exactly what you mean - it's only worse if someone else points it out to you.....image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,776 ✭✭✭✭
    "it's only worse if someone else points it out to you....."

    image
    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    i don't understand why so many foolhardy collectors refuse to believe that there are MANY MANY MANY doctored coins in plastic, pcgs, ngc & anacs.

    K S
  • TrimeTrime Posts: 1,863 ✭✭✭
    So,... Everyone agrees that a perfect coin is better than a coin with a flaw (spot).
    Is it wrong to improve a coin if it can be done without harming the coin further. But what to do a how to do it best.
    I have a magnificent R7 pattern that has perfect mirrored brilliant surfaces and fantastic strike the coin is wonderful save a single small dark spot on the reverse lateral field. If this were a toned coin it would be a muted flaw but on the brilliant surfaces it is a beacon. I can't help believe that the coin would be better with a vey careful attempt to remove the spot. 30X shows that there is a small base of oxidation (sneeze) and then fibers (lint from a coin cabinet) that attached itself. I would like to be a purist but I love this coin and want it to be as perfect as possible. This is not about fixing and selling nor about fooling others.
    Trime
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Depends on how well they were doctored, I suppose.

    I am amazed, too, at the pictures you provided- seems to me those coins should have bodybagged. I would rather have a slightly spotty coin than an amateurishly-doctored one.

    However, I would prefer a properly-doctored coin to one with spots.

    What is "properly doctored"? Where it isn't as apparent to the naked eye. While your examples are magnified, am sure they are also apparent to the naked eye, yes?

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I prefer the spots left alone. It's the concern of what ELSE has been done that I CAN'T see that bothers me, more than the spot removal itself.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • Prometheus183Prometheus183 Posts: 385
    Don't like spots. Have a 76-s proof cent with tiny carbon spots that drive me nuts.
    Decided next week I'll hit it with the bench grinder to polish them off, then throw
    it in the dishwasher with the cascade just to be sure they don't come back!
    The Rede we live by: If it harms none, do what you will.
    image
  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
    Tim

    As you know raised die lines on a proof are die striations.Scratches are different as they are incised.Why don't you send your scratched coins back to PCGS for guaranteed resubmission and see what you hear?

    Stewart

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