RELIABLE sources of unopened wax?

RonAndChelle

I ran across my husband's old card collection recently and talked him into starting it up again because I find the idea incredibly fun. I would like to buy unopened wax boxes or packs (pre 1980 basketball, football and baseball). I am very skeptical of buying them off of ebay because of the ease of ripping people off. Does anyone know of any RELIABLE sellers on the web or even ebay of these items? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Stone193

http://www.bbckid.com/catalog/

Hi, over the years I have found Mark to be very honest and the prices are fair - only thing is, he doesn't seem to have the inventory he used to.

Mike

Griffins

Mike-
That might be due to his house burning down last year, with his entire inventory.
I've been burned a few times lately on unopened wax, and am very reluctant to buy packs ungraded. GAI grading does provide some degree of confidence, but no one is perfect. Murphy's booklet is good for learning the basics of pack sealing (and resealing),other than that I try and buy either graded or from someone I trust that will take a return if it looks funny to me.
A lot of the learning curve from cards applies to packs- if a seller has graded packs and ungraded ones ask yourself why wouldn't he grade it? Often there is a reason, and that reason is not going to be in your favor. If the price is too good to be true there is usually a reason. Arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can, and go slow. And seek advice from anyone that is willing to share it. Skip M on ebay was very generous with his advice and I feel he really knows his stuff- he has had both graded and ungraded packs on ebay recently, and tells why the ungraded ones are that way. Others on the board here (Packcollector especially) have been very helpful and open with advice.
Best of luck finding packs- they seem to have really taken off in price lately, and that has caused a lot of submissions to GAI. At the Hollywood Park show tonite I saw more packs in 50 feet that I have in the last 3 years combined, so the market seems to be taking off. One can only hope that PSA would find a way to grade these, as GAI's customre service is absolutely abyssmal.

Stone193

Griff - I'm not sure if I'm supposed to get an inference here on Mark Murphy - do you think he has slipped a bit in his quality?

Mike

Also, what about Dave and Adams Card World - been advertising in SCD forever it seems - never bought anything from them; by the way I have some vending from Murphy's auctions and sales over the years: 82T and 85T; also 76, 77 T Op. wax boxes - don't remember what I paid or what worth today - I know at the time it was way cheaper than US. What do you think?

TheCARDKid

Mark Murphy, Dave and Adams Card World and the BBC Exchange are three high quality sellers of wax. Mark's book on collecting unopened packs is great. It's a bargain at $5. He hasn't got the inventory he use to have (although recently be bought alot of great stuff including an unopened 1965 Topps box).

Mastronet and Lelands are two of the premier auction houses in the industry and they usually have a nice assortment of quality wax in their auctions.

ctsoxfan

Just a note on Dave and Adams...I bought an 85 Topps vending box from them last fall, and have no doubt it was a searched box. I didn't get even one of the big RC's or any major or minor stars even, and out of 500 cards, that's pretty impossible. 500 commons! As soon as I opened the box, it didn't seem right. I called them, and they basically told me I was out of luck. I called back again and asked to speak with a manager, and he was more sympathetic, and refunded my money. But, lesson learned.

Stone193

ctsoxfan

That's a happy ending; I told my red back story a few days ago that also had a good outcome. Ya know, I like old racks for that reason - although I like the looks of a nice clean wax pack better. I thought I saw where Dave... has some graded packs in his auction. Doesn't Mark Murphy have some expert input to a grading company? Maybe due to the increase in popularity of older wax, everyone can tell about the fish that got away story - regret about something they wish they had bought which is more $ now.

Mike

Griffins

No inference is any way. It is my understanding Murphy's house burnt down a year or go ago, with his collection and inventory. Every dealing I've had with him as been solid, and his book is invaluable. Murphy was intially grading packs for GAI but I'm pretty sure he severed that relationship with them about the time of the fire.

Stone193

Thanx for the info - by the way, do you think down the road, my 76,77 T O-Pee-Chee packs will be worth grading?

Mike

RobBobGolf

Stay away from Dave & Adams, scam artists, they only sell when it's in their favor. Can'y stand those guys.

RobBob

wallst32

In my opinion, BBCKID's stuff isn't as good as it used to be. I used to buy from him regualry 4-5 years ago and the cards were very sharp and I pulled good cards. Recently, I would say a lot of his stuff is "questionable". For example, 5 packs of a 132 card set; got the same run of commons 3 times, and the same run another 2 times, which equated to none of the rookies or even the HOF stars. Unless all the rookies and superstars were bundled in the same run, any other run would probably have yielded something. Possible to happen?; yes, but not very likely.

The bottom line is this material has to come from somewhere. It's not always going to be warehouse finds, untouched for years. What you can be assured of when dealing with DACW or BBCKID is they aren't the ones doing the tampering. So in that respect, I would call them reliable sellers of unopened packs/boxes, but they will get their share of "bad" material as well.

One tip that I have about pack sellers on ebay is to look at what they purchase. I've seen a few pack dealers constantly buying wrappers, bricks of nm/mt commons, and misc pack inserts (which for the most part are undesireable). Watch out for these sellers.

slvnumber2

I have bought several packs and vending boxes over the years from the BBCKid and they were all legit. Some really nice '74, 75 and '76 vending boxes that are a blast to open. Part of the problem is that some people judge the box as being tampered with if they don't receive good cards, but how many new boxes from the last couple of years has everyone opened only to pull as the one big card out of SPX to be a numbered Brian Cook auto jersey?

As far as the other group mentioned in the thread I would not buy a forest fire from them if I lived in the artic tundra. In my personal dealings with them they have been rude and have even backed out of deals - lucky for me. I was going to buy a box of 75 topps mini's from them and asked them the price. When they told me something like $1500 or $1600 I proceeded to get my money out. Once my money was out then they told me they were not for sale. I then asked them why they would quote me a price on something they had in their case, but when I wanted to buy it they would not sell it. Later that day these items were gone. Not a problem to me since I bought a nice run of 75 mini's for $25 a pack at the National from them and did very well.

The other story on the duo above has made me never want to buy anything from them ever. There is a person where I live that had cases upon cases of '86 fleer basketball that sold to them. I happened to pick up a very sweet raw Jordan from him for $300 and got it graded a 9 - PSA told me it would have been a 10 but the centering was a little high for a 10. Anyways, after the boxes and cases were sold these guys went through them right in front of him searching for Jordans and re-selling the rest. I have always laughed at anyone that sells on Ebay where they list the lot as 23 unopened packs of SPx basketball. If there are 24 packs in a box and someone is selling 23 you might deduce that the jersey card was in the first pack and you just bought a bunch of packs with commons.

TheRoach

<< <i> I have always laughed at anyone that sells on Ebay where they list the lot as 23 unopened packs of SPx basketball. If there are 24 packs in a box and someone is selling 23 you might deduce that the jersey card was in the first pack and you just bought a bunch of packs with commons. >>



I couldn't agree more. Unopened loose packs on Ebay are usually the left overs from a serached box. I wouldn't touch them.


TheRoach

Stone193

slvnumber2

Ditto....wise words Obi Won

You too, Roach

Mike

slvnumber2

Mike:

Let me know if you are interested in 17 packs of 2003 SPx basketball - I will give you a really good deal!!

Time to go build a space to take a nap under my desk.

AlanAllen

Griffins,
Did you see the pack selection at Brian Hively's (sp) table today? He had the most amazing packs I've ever seen. '48 Leaf Short Print. '52 Topps nickel. '52 Bowman Large Nickel. Not a pack in the case was less than 45 years old, and they were stacked more than one deep in some places. I inquired about prices, and he told me he would only sell it as a lot, and his asking price was $200,000 .

I also spoke with the Mastro rep, and he confirmed the rumors about the early baseball and hockey wax in their next auction. A complete box of mid/high series '52 Topps, 17 nickel pack sof '53 Topps, etc. He said they might break out one or two of the nicest '53s and auction them seperately.

Joe

TheCARDKid

AlanAllen,

Is this from the Hollywood Park show? How many packs do you think there were for $200 k? It sounds incredible.

Stone193

AlanAllen

That's incredible!!! Ya know, everyone has their fish that got away story - if you go to Mark Murphy's "find" section, he has the story of the old lady he bought the 8 pack 52T's from - he had them for sale for something like 1800 a pop - at the time I thought that was too much to spend on one item - boy was I all wet - I really believe you can trust these and they looked great - bet they would get hi grade at GAI and would sell at auction for big $$ - but I bet a lot of guys have similar stories

Griffins

Joe-
I spent a while talking to him and Randy. The price for me was only 120K, you obviously look considerably more affluent! He had the only '49 Leaf SP pack graded, along with bowmans from '50-55 (missing '53's) and Topps from 52- 78 or something like that. Plus a few '59 Fleers. It was a great run. I tried to talk him into selling me a few packs but he wanted to keep it intact, and said if it doesn't sell he'll consign it.
Shoebox had a decent '55 Pack. I also thought the huge lot of non sport packs Bob Marcy (scottsdalecards.com) had was pretty cool and would make a nice display piece. They weren't that expensive, there was just so many you'd have to collect them along a theme line, and dispite Bobs suggestions I just couldn't make a decision- at least not yet. Did you find anything at the show?

gemint

Has anyone confirmed if the 1952 wax box does contain the last (Mantle) series? I think this would be a first if they do (save a few bogus auctions on eBay).

pc

Anthony-
he turned down 100k.

NickM

Paul - you should have shown up for breakfast yesterday at Norma's. We could have used one more person at the table who looked really out of place in the neighborhood.

Nick