Darkside Prices??

Veep

Ok, I'll admit it. I've been a lightside only collector for a zillion years. Only recently have I started to notice darkside stuff and am liking what I'm seeing. Its like being able to collect US Patterns without the high price. Speaking of price, what do you use to establish prices that you'll pay? I have the latest Krause Catalogs from 1801 to-date. Is "Mkt Val" anywhere near true market value? Is it high retail like the Redbook is for US coins? A little direction will be appreciated.

Gracias

lordmarcovan

Usually it is high retail like the Redbook, but even higher than that. Many coins trade at a fraction of Krause. However, it depends on the type of coin. If it's something popular, you can expect to pay closer to full catalog.

CIVITAS

Most of the values in the 19th and 20th century catalogs are above true "liquid" market value. Some exceptions are high grade modern Greek and Polish as well as high quality British. Also coins of exceptional quality and eye appeal for their type will sometimes trade well above catalog. Things that generally trade well below catalog: Canada, Mexico, Belgium, Netherlands, France, Denmark, Germany (unless scarce or very high quality), most modern proof sets, anything made by the Franklin Mint (yes they did make coins for other countries), bullion related coins such as common date sovereigns, French roosters and Angels, Swiss 20F, Mapleleafs, Kookaburas, Pandas, Australian Zodiac coinage ( for example: I've got a Proof year of the Dragon silver coin that catalogs for $100.00 that I will happily sell you for $20.00) . The list goes on. Basically, know the market for anything serious that you are considering purchasing. Any casual purchases, just pay a price you think is fair for how badly you feel you need/want the coin. That's one of the nice things about collecting world coins is that it's a little more relaxed. You don't have an army of "Greysheet Wankers" who whine and complain if you want 10% over Ask.

spoon

<< <i>Basically, know the market for anything serious that you are considering purchasing. Any casual purchases, just pay a price you think is fair for how badly you feel you need/want the coin. >>

The best advice there is!

Veep

First of all, its nice to see a Cubs logo over here in a "foreign" land.

I appreciate the input. I guess that its like pricing lightside stuff: Ues a number of sources and get a feel for what your target coins are trading for; decide how nice the coin is; negotiate; buy or pass. In other words, there's no easy route. It takes some work just like on the lightside. I shouldn't be surprised.

lordmarcovan

I find 18th century copper and Spanish Colonial silver in the circulated grades to be quite undervalued, even if it is common. On the other hand, modern German (Federal Republic) stuff and lots of the zinc garbage the Germans scattered about Europe when they were oppressing everyone seems to be grossly overvalued.

CIVITAS

<< <i>I find 18th century copper and Spanish Colonial silver in the circulated grades to be quite undervalued, even if it is common. On the other hand, modern German (Federal Republic) stuff and lots of the zinc garbage the Germans scattered about Europe when they were oppressing everyone seems to be grossly overvalued. >>



I agree on both points. We regularly get over catalog on spanish colonial (especially "Pillar Dollars" and other 8R coins). The German stuff we almost have to beg people to buy.

cladking

<< <i>

I appreciate the input. I guess that its like pricing lightside stuff: Ues a number of sources and get a feel for what your target coins are trading for; decide how nice the coin is; negotiate; buy or pass. In other words, there's no easy route. It takes some work just like on the lightside. I shouldn't be surprised. >>



Well, actually no. Oh sure you can get a good idea of what many actively traded coins
are worth from Krause. It will generally be between about 25% and 200%. Usually there
are relatively few simple rules that will get you closer to actual value and some of these
rules have already been mentioned in the thread.

One of the biggest problems is with the moderns. While US moderns started in 1965 many
world moderns started well back into the 19th century. Generally modern can be defined
as base metal coinage which replaced silver coins in circulation though there are likely some
exceptions to this. These coins can be priced by Krause at hundreds of dollars when there
are no buyers even at $10. Others can be quite scarce, desirable, and valuable and be priced
for less than a couple dollars. There are no rules for knowing which is which in these coins.
You must either be able to recognize them or have access to pricing from their domestic mar-
kets (which can also be suspect).

Even with silver coins there can be some highly suspicious pricing. My favorite example here
is the Egyptian 1944 2P. This coin saw heavy circulation since it was made of debased silver
and circulated at a time that high value coins had a high velocity. It had a reported mintage
of only 32,000 and it is illegal to export any old coins from Egypt. This is a relatively popular
country to collect and these coins are not commonly seen. Almost every example I've seen
has been an unattractive VF or less. This coin may or may not exist in a nice pleasing unc, but
if you find one Krause says it will be worth $4.

There are examples of cu/ni coins which are much more extreme.

World coins are great but all the caveats for US coins apply and sometimes in spades. Just be
carefull and go slow until you get a good feel for proper pricing levels. Remember that old timers
used to set aside quantities of nice BU world coins and in all probability it will be a couple decades
until all these coins have been dispersed. Grading isn't nearly so important with most world coin
collectors but quality is respected among collectors everywhere. Also remember that generally
Krause attempted to use domestic grading standards in their pricing and generally these standards
are far stricter than US standards.

As with US coins the objective is to have fun so have at it- - if I haven't scared you off.

Askari

One valuable resource not mentioned is a subscription to Krause's monthly World Coin News. There you can see what the competitive "market asks" are among the major market-makers. The Krause catalogs are great for filling up your "want lists" (or maybe "I crave lists") as well as a general guide to prices and to the escalation rate with higher grades. Once you've narrowed down what you want to collect -- and wrung the drool out of your Krauses -- WCN is a good place to start tracking real-world prices.

cladking

<< <i>One valuable resource not mentioned is a subscription to Krause's monthly World Coin News. There you can see what the competitive "market asks" are among the major market-makers. The Krause catalogs are great for filling up your "want lists" (or maybe "I crave lists") as well as a general guide to prices and to the escalation rate with higher grades. Once you've narrowed down what you want to collect -- and wrung the drool out of your Krauses -- WCN is a good place to start tracking real-world prices. >>



Excellent advice. The sell ads are good for getting a feel for the market but the
various buy ads are much better. They give free buy ads to subscribers so there
is an excellent assortment of buys each month.

newsman

<< <i>One valuable resource not mentioned is a subscription to Krause's monthly World Coin News >>



I got a couple of sample copies of World Coin News at a recent show, and did find the ads useful, but it was the most boring publication I've ever read. The articles all read like pretentious college term papers.

Edited to add: They are in dire need of a good editor (hint, hint)

lordmarcovan

The Numismatist used to be like that. When I renewed my ANA membership after a lapse of almost a decade, and got the newer version of the publication, I was impressed. It is much more readable now. Not that it was ever bad. It was just a bit dry and dusty before, if you knowhutimean.

canadiancoinguy

<< <i>Even with silver coins there can be some highly suspicious pricing. My favorite example here
is the Egyptian 1944 2P. This coin saw heavy circulation since it was made of debased silver
and circulated at a time that high value coins had a high velocity. It had a reported mintage
of only 32,000 and it is illegal to export any old coins from Egypt. This is a relatively popular
country to collect and these coins are not commonly seen. Almost every example I've seen
has been an unattractive VF or less >>



One of my favorites as well, I've never seen one sell for less than Krause. I have a pair in EF/AU