Received a smashed slab...what can I do?

ctsoxfan

I purchased a Marcus Allen RC on Ebay from a seller last week. I paid promptly, including $3.00 for shipping, and received my package a few days ago. I opened it to find the PSA holder completely smashed, and the card itself bent. The seller just threw the card slab loosely into a bubble mailer with no additional protection, and it seems like the card was damaged in transit. The seller only paid .83 for the postage on the item. I have read about this before on here, but it is frustrating to me - why not take the extra few seconds to protect the slab with two pieces of cardboard, or additional bubble wrap? You charged me $3.00, and paid .83 (plus maybe .50 for the mailer)!

My question is, what should I do? I emailed the seller (and sent him a scan of the card) but no response yet. I did not buy insurance, but isn't it still the seller's responsibility to deliver the goods in a safe and secure package? Doesn't seem like that was the case here. If I get no response from him, will Ebay or PayPal help? And, I will certainly neg him, but am I right to do so? Scan attached below.

milbroco

I agree that extra care should have been taken. Every card I ship is either in a top loader or a slab and is slipped between two pieces of light cardboard for added protection. Also, EVERYTHING I ship is insured. I do not give insurance as an option, I state $X.XX for shipping which includes insurance.

I do not think your seller is responsible once it hits the Post Office. But I think he should make good on the transaction.

Good Luck,
Bob

Rainman

technically if you don't buy insurance, the seller doesn't have to refund your $ or replace the card. however, if i were the seller, i'd do so simply out of goodwill (few sellers that i know of do this). when i ship graded cards, i put them in a team bag, cover the card w/2 thick cardboard slabs (like what you get out of modern UD wax packs), and place it in a bubble mailer. i mark the package as "FRAGILE". as a buyer on ebay, i had cards damaged 2x- dslsports was the seller. the card arrived in a scratched psa holder. i emailed them and they replaced the cards quickly. however, dsl is a "bulk" dealer and so not every seller could issue a replacement. i'm not so sure placing a card in a bubble mailer w/o any extra protection is negligent/unsafe packaging. in fact, i had to do that 1x simply b/c i was rushed. the card arrived in perfect condition. it's not like the seller placed the card in an UNPADDED large envelope.

i'm not so sure you should "certainly" neg him. ive bought items from sellers w/o paying for insurance and had another item (not from dsl) arrive damaged (slight/barely noticeable chip on the back of a game used card- you'd have to use a magnifying glass- or have super sharp eyes to even see it). i left the seller a positive b/c he delivered what he said- a card that was "mint" at the time he shipped/packaged it. as a seller, i have gotten 1 (my only) negative. the buyer alleged that the box on a doll i shippd was not mint (defined by me as "no creases, chipping, fading, bending, dings, marks, or other noticeable flaws at the time of shipping/packaging"). the buyer left me a negative WITHOUT contacting me whatsoever and did NOT buy insurance. the box was packed securely (multiple layers of bubble wrap, packing peanuts, tissue paper, etc.) and WAS mint at the time of shipping. in his negative he put "doll's hair was messed up; box was not mint." first of all, I have NO control over a doll's hair as it was NEVER removed from the box and the doll was pictured in my listing. second, the box WAS mint at the time of shipping. third, the guy did NOT buy insurance. fourth, he did NOT contact me whatsoever. do i feel his negative was warranted? no. can i as a seller do anything about it? no. in looking at the feedback he's left for others, he's left 3 negatives on the 4 transactions he's done, claiming the items weren't mint. i'm not saying you're doing this, but i'm offering it as an example.

Paypal and ebay offer several $100 worth of protection, but i don't know the specifics (i.e., is that only if you don't get the item? is that if the item's damaged?), so you'll have to look them up yourself.

yawie99

I've left neutrals in that situation, but the neg would be a bit harsh. I save negs for fraudulently overgraded items, non-delivery of items or deadbeat bidders. Still, this guy and other sellers have a responsibility to package items so that they withstand the rigors of transit. Neutrals are warranted for those that do not.

downgoesfrazier

That's too bad. I hope the seller takes care of you. Recently, a co-worker prepared shipping for a couple of eBay lots I sold as I was unavailable (birth of my twins). He did it as a favor as he was shipping his stuff as well. I learned later that he simply tossed the graded slabs inside of a bubble mailer--something I NEVER do. He did insure them, but I sure hope they arrive safely.

I would not neg him, however. He should have taken more care, but give him a chance to make good on it. I would second Yawies response. This is just an unfortunate situation, but no one was being dishonest etc. For the record, the only broken slab I ever got was wrapped in bubble-wrap and tucked inside of a bubble mailer...the seller was great about it, so I left him a positive and chalked it up to a "bummer" we both agreed to make the best of. I hope your transaction works out as well. Looks like it was a real nice card.

dgf

34GoudeyCollector

Maybe I am over protective when I ship a slab, but I will ship them only in a box with bubble wrap, whether it's 1 slab or 10. To me, even with cardboard on either side of the slab, a bubble mailer just doesn't seem to be a lot of protection for the card. If I had raw cards in toploaders bundled together, I would probably go for the bubble mailer since a stack of toploads is basically a small brick. However, with the slab, it just seems to me that it wouldn't take a lot of Mr. Postman throwing boxes (hmm...this never happens...yeh OK) around to break it. In fact everytime I receive a slab in the mail with a bubble mailer, I open it while praying it's not broke and then give the big sigh of relief once I find out it's OK (except for 2 in the past when I said about every four letter in the book when I found it broke in half).

Ken

ctsoxfan

Thanks for all of your replies. Here's an update: The seller emailed me a short time ago, and told me he was sorry, but there was nothing he could do about this. He told me that since I did not buy insurance, he could not be responsible. He further stated that he is not in the business of losing money, which is what he would do by refunding my money, and having no card (which I never asked him to do). He was nice about it in the email, but I still feel ripped off by this. There is no question that if it was me, I would make good on the transaction somehow, in the interest of goodwill. Prior to this, I was reconsidering the neg, but now it seems appropriate, at least to warn other people about this seller's nonchalant attitude towards customer service. I also know now not to buy anything else from this seller, and he will probably lose more than just the small amount I paid for this card in future sales (from me, and others who hear about this). All you really have when you sell online is your reputation, and I certainly wouldn't chance mine over a $50 card.

packCollector

ctsox, you just hit the nail on the proverbial head. Personnally , he is not responsible and fullfilled his duty by using a bubble mailer. one persons definition of safely packed is not anothers and the most stringent and careful collectors are the ones commenting on this board. many other collectors would be happy to see the bubble mailer instead of a sase.. the bubble mailer alone should be enough protection 99.9% of the time. I always bubble wrap in a bubble mailer for 1 to 3 cards and box for any more. It is just the most cost efficient way, if you charge more for shipping and box everything, people will complain about your shipping cost or not bid based on the shipping cost.

as a seller I would have made good on the transaction. that is how you keep your reputation and people like to deal with sellers that understand what it is like to be a buyer. he will lose more in the long run and now he has lost a good customer and other potential customers.

goodriddance189

the best way i have found to ship graded cards is cutting up a cardboard box and sandwiching the slabs in between 2 pieces of cardboard. it usually provides more than enough protection.

murcerfan

all kinds of "experienced" collectors and dealers still trust that 'magic' bubble mailer.
Skerbe, Bobby Lins, Stark, 1954, dsl, etc., etc.

The postal service is starting to deny insurance claims on broken slabs naked in bubble mailers, stating that the packaging is inadequate.......I don't blame them.

heck, I just got a $250 card that came in a top-loader dropped into a bubble mailer.
Pretty funny, the card was crap anyways, as it had been altered.
.................... and now has a big fat crease too.

bowlking

<< <i>The postal service is starting to deny insurance claims on broken slabs naked in bubble mailers, stating that the packaging is inadequate.......I don't blame them. >>



While I can see that extra packaging is needed, the USPS denying insurance claims when insurance for an item was paid for is absolutely absurd. How much weight/pressure, does it take to break a graded slab? To me, I would think quite a bit! A bubble mailer, while maybe alone is not wise, should be able to withstand NORMAL handling by the post office. To me it is more a case of negligence on the part of the post office.

And to add, What's up with the post office charging insurance? I guess I'll have to start paying food insurance at a restaurant to guarantee the cook doesn't burn my food. Maybe I'll pay insurance to my mechanic to guarantee he doesn't ruin my car while fixing it. Here's one for my business, I can start charging insurance to my customers to guarantee that I get their order completed on time. What a joke, paying extra to guarantee they do the job they are paid to do and not destroy your item while doing it.

Stone193

Bowlking

What a joke, paying extra to guarantee they do the job they are paid to do and not destroy your item while doing it.

That is right on target - great point - never thought of it that way!

aro13

murcerfan - Was the altered card the Ice King Clancy? I saw that on ebay and wondered why it had not been graded. I guess, now I know.

dbj77

I feel mixed on this one. If insurance was offered by not taken by you, I feel that it's not his fault if the post office mangled it, however, a simple bubble mailer is not enough protection. I guess it's up to you how to decide to handle it, but I would suggest emailing sellers ahead of time and asking them how they plan on packaging the card.

jrinck

The post office I ship from has one particular clerk who, if I am insuring the package, will question the packaging in almost all cases. I once shipped about seven raw cards to someone, yet the box was about 7 inches by 7 inches, with cardboard surrounding the cards that were in solid top loaders, with the box filled with peanuts. When I handed the clerk the insurance slip, she asked what could possibly be in there that was worth $100 because the box was so light. I told her it was only seven baseball cards and that, barring a steamrolling accident or flood, nothing bad could possibly happen to them, at least due to my packaging. She actually said "I don't know about that!", yet, seemingly reluctant, insured it anyway.

I know for a fact that if I tried to insure even a $50 PSA card loose in a bubble envelope that she would probably call the Postmaster General over for approval. Maybe all clerks should be so tough. If the USPS is going to accept money for insurance, then they certainly don't want to have to pay out due to faulty packaging on the part of the customer, so they would force shippers to ship more securely or not ship through the USPS at all.

murcerfan

Aro,
The Clancy Ice King was pressed. it was returned last week.
The one I refered to was was the Primeau Hamilton Gum.
The seller has a bunch more vintage hockey on e-bay now, so beware!

as for you other guys.
would you rather have a postal insurance settlement or an undamaged psa slab??
It's that simple.
Now for all those 1980 topps cards maybe the card ain't all that important.
......when you get your first ruined $500 Wilson Franks in the mail, you may look at your arguement differently.


Shouldn't we be able to sue car makers for head trauma, when we ignore the recommendation (a law where I live) of seat-belts, get in an accident and fly through a windshield? Or should we sue the highway department ? clearly they both have failed to do thier job properly.

aro13

murcerfan - Thanks for the info. That guy has a ton of ungraded vintage hockey for sale.

yawie99

Is that orkdoolian you're talking about? I've been tracking a few of his auctions, but will certainly pass if he's the source of your bunk cards, murcerfan.

murcerfan

Yes, although I just now wrote him to set up a refund (hopefully)
I got some creased "NM" '52 Bowman Smalls from him last fall, I really should have known better.
but that Primeau is 1 of 2 i need to complete the set.

murcerfan

Just want to go on record and say that aforementioned seller has responded very quickly and has asked me to return any/all cards i am unhappy with for a full refund. He seemed appologetic and sincere, for what that's worth (personally I'd rather deal with pit-bull if the cards are clean)
He also covers the shipping, so I guess it really was a free look-see, beyond time wasted of course.

1967topps

call me paranoid if you must but I ALWAYS buy insurance on a graded card.
One time an insured McGwire PSA 9 came looking like it had been smashed by a hammer
through the package (just a little bubble envelope). I filed a claim with the PO and submitted
copies of listings showing approx value of the item as graded.

The PO wound up with a sharp McGwire card and I got a check written by the USPS.
I should add that the seller was very helpful, as well, though not so helpful HE refunded
my money

Seems like buying insurance means the PO doesn't play baseball with your package, and delivery
confirmation insures it gets there on a timely basis and isn't used as a coaster for a week.

Again call it paranoid, or TRICKS OF THE TRADE, but that seems to be what it takes to make
sure cards arrive safely thru the USPS these days.

ctsoxfan

All replies and thoughts appreciated. After I thought about this for a day, I am leaving him a neg. I don't agree with having to pay extra for insurance on top of what I bought my item for, just to ensure that I actually get it, and that it's undamaged. That should go without saying. If the seller wants to protect himself from this type of thing, he should insure all of the items he sells, so he has recourse from someone after he refunds the customers money. In any business, it is the sellers responsibility to deliver on what is being sold, not the buyers responsibility to be forced to pay extra just to get what was paid for in the first place.

RobE

<< <i>Now for all those 1980 topps cards maybe the card ain't all that important. >>



Now for all those 1980 topps cards maybe the card ain't all that important.

Now for all those 1980 topps cards maybe the card ain't all that important.

Now for all those 1980 topps cards maybe the card ain't all that important.

Now for all those 1980 topps cards maybe the card ain't all that important.

Now for all those 1980 topps cards maybe the card ain't all that important.

Now for all those 1980 topps cards maybe the card ain't all that important.

Now for all those 1980 topps cards maybe the card ain't all that important.

Now for all those 1980 topps cards maybe the card ain't all that important.

Now for all those 1980 topps cards maybe the card ain't all that important.

Now for all those 1980 topps cards maybe the card ain't all that important.

Now for all those 1980 topps cards maybe the card ain't all that important.

Now for all those 1980 topps cards maybe the card ain't all that important.

OK

RobE

This one broke a record

packCollector

ctsox, you make some good points but if he would have required you to buy insurance either stated or by charging higher shipping, there ould be another thread on this board saying how absurd it is that I have to pay $5 shipping on a $10 card. my 2 cents, personnally I think the neg was unfair.

ctsoxfan

I understand that, pack collector. I actually haven't done it yet. I know a lot of people are quick on the draw with negs, but I wanted to think about it for a bit, and then act accordingly. Maybe a neutral would be better for this.

Rob, you don't have to sell me on the '80 Topps, man! I only wish I could have beaten rdbjr to the punch on a few of those...

RobE

Just having fun joking around with Murcerfan's comment,CTSF.I'm not trying to sell you on anything,Basically the theme was moreso incurance and importance to insure.I think anyone who bought those cards would have not been to pleased if they were sent uninsured and in an $.80 postage and I'll be dammed if I'll ever sell anything like that and ship uninsured.

You should always insure.

I had a 68 Yaz show up with the slab broken in a lot of cards.I sent back the card to the seller who in turn paid to reholder the card.Between shipping back to him,him reholdering and the fees all the way back to me he was into it for about 20 to 25 bucks.The Post Office collected all info and sent me a check which I paid back the buyer as everything was on his dime.

Took a minute but I would up buying from the right guy when a problem occured.

DeutscherGeist

RobE,

about the case of the cracked 68 Maz: The post office paid for all the shipping that went around regarding the reholdering of the card? My post office told me that they would only pay for the $5 reholder fee, but not the shipping back and forth. Am I missing something here? My post office does not exactly have the sharpest people, so is there a rule/law that I can show them to get what's due to me?

habs71

<< <i>My post office does not exactly have the sharpest people, so is there a rule/law that I can show them to get what's due to me? >>



DeutscherGeist>> Spend a few minutes on the post office website reading their policies. Well, quite a bit more than a few minutes actually.


As other have mentioned, going to the same post office all the time will help once they get to know you.



Skip

RobE

Andre,skip is right.They know me at my PO after 5 years.

I spoke to the postmaster who I explained what was involved,She is very rulebook like for postal laws but delivered because I followed directions.

Once the card came back complete with all paperwork,insude a week or two they took care of all expenses with the proper receipts.Only thing she asked for from the start was the holder which I told her might be destroyed but it didn't matter with all tracable paperwork that checked out.

Took a minute but the PO made good for insuring the package.