Got some grades

matto

I figure what better to do in my first post than share some grades I just got back from PCGS. All of the coins previously resided in holders, so I will give some feedback on how I feel they did and what I expected.

Before cracked

1911-d $20 MS65 NGC
1923-d $20 MS63 PCGS
1912 $10 MS62 NGC
1917-s Type One MS63 PCGS

NOW

1911-d $20 MS63 PCGS
1923-d $20 DAMAGED
1912 $10 MS63 PCGS
1917-s Type One MS64 PCGS


Bottom line is they did a horrible job. I don't know who is grading the Saints but they were in my opinion just dead wrong. On the 1911-d I am now willing to say that it is the nicest 63 I have ever seen. They 23-d was also shock, obviously. If PCGS told me that they had their receptionist grading the coins I would believe them. The 23-d came out of a second generation holder and is obviously of MS64 quality. What I am sure they called damage is obviously a flaw that occured when struck (grease that was on the die or something to that nature). Although I don't have the coins in possesion yet, I can't wait to see the reason they give. What can I say about the 1912. Well, I just sent it along because I needed an extra coin to do the four free submissions I had. By no means was I looking for a upgrade on this piece. In fact, had a 61 came back I would have not been suprised. And that leaves the 1917. It was in a first generation MS63 and I was looking for a MS65. A 64 was certainly a possibility though and it comes as no real shock. So, when the day is done, three out of four in my belief were poorly graded. I guess NGC will just get the nod next time around.

DHeath

Matto,

Welcome to the forum. Interesting results. Maybe you could put up a pic or two when the coins come home.

ealandg

I think most of us who have sent in items to be slabbed have had some nasty surprises. I can remember being totally blown away when a draped bust dime I submitted was body bagged for damage. If you really feel the coin is worthy of a slab, why not resubmit? Everyone else seems to, which is why Mr. Hall has to keep extending the turn around time for submissions.

Stooge

Matto,
Welcome to the forums...I hope that your next submission is better for you!

Later,
Paul B. Gunsallus

Cam40

Wow, What a way to jump right in. Your an ol pro on the first post.
Sound like you,ve been here for awhile already.

I,m not sure if `the squeeky wheel gets the grease` or not but you might call em up on that St. for a review
and regrade. I might beach at em but then, grading is only opinion and opinions can change by the hour....
Keep submitting till you get your grade. Some do that and it seems to work. Kinda expense though....

Welcome aboard Matto

matto

I realize in many ways this is a game. That is how Mr. Hall makes his money. Basically if you want the coin/coins graded correctly then several submissions might be what it takes. But rewarding negligence is something I won't do, so NGC get the next opportunity to make a buck or two.

Cladiator

Ouch!

Cam40

Thats about it. Its a game sometimes. Once you crack a coin out all bets are off on the guaratee.
Dont people just submit the whole slab and get them to crack it and reholder, if it will ` cross`that is.

Robgetty

Welcome to the boards.

Hey, at least you got 2 upgrades.

matto

Sure, you can submit the whole slab, but then where is the fun. If you realize it is a game, then beating the game is cracking and getting an upgrade. Also when submitting the whole slab i can't believe they aren't biased.

matto

Appreciate the welcomes. And yes, 2 upgrades are better than none.

ealandg

Funny you should mention the "slab bias" because I am torn about this right now. I've got a coin graded by a "lesser" grader at XF45. I am fearful of cracking it because I suspect it might have been cleaned and will be body bagged by PCGS. What to do? If I crack it I might not be able to get it back in anyone's slab. If I don't I'm sure PCGS will grade it lower just based on principle.

matto

Obviously just a suggestion, but find a dealer you can trust and get their opinion. One thing you should know is that if PCGS does boby bag it, ANACS will net grade it. As far as submitting it in the holder, i personally believe there is a bias, in fact I don't know how there couldn't be. PCGS claims to be the best and I think is willing to make examples of that claim.

Prometheus183

First of all, welcome matto.
Second, I'm a lousy grader, but learning. I tried the smash-n-grade too, and have found simply, if you don't think you'll like the answer, don't ask the question. Some of these older grades are better left as-is, unless you're willing to face the harsh reality.

If I were intent on keeping the coin, I'd leave well enough alone. On the other hand, if I wanted to sell at market in order to get something I really wanted, I might be willing to take the risk of cracking. As I am a new member, I'd certainly show-and-tell to the board here for their oppinion before ever cracking another. I've been reading alot of what these folks have to say, and they are by far better than I on such matters.

Good luck, and learn wisdom!
Craig

Newmismatist

<< <i>I realize in many ways this is a game. That is how Mr. Hall makes his money. Basically if you want the coin/coins graded correctly then several submissions might be what it takes. But rewarding negligence is something I won't do, so NGC get the next opportunity to make a buck or two. >>



You'll probably get the same nasty surprise over there - Grading is a "Bell Curve" they get 15-20% wrong on the low end, 15-20% wrong on the high end and 60-70% right in the middle.

Looks like they couldn't accuratley re-grade their own previously graded coins, as one previously graded was bagged & one previously graded went up a grade - Consistency 0% - Regading the NGC grades , they thought one was overgraded, and one undergraded. Looks like none of the professional graders can agree on anything based on you group. Maybe its just random grading - hard to figure.

matto

Maybe to further fuel discussion I will state the two reasons I cracked them in the first place. While I do consider myself a proficient grader of most gold, the experience always helps to further ability. Secondly I am aware that keeping coins in their old holder is sometimes not a bad idea. In this case, I wanted to increase the marketability of these coins.

Prometheus183

Matto - In case I sounded offensive, let me appologize. I in no way intended to sound that way. To clearify, I was speaking strictly on my own experience, in that I myself (being enexperienced) thought that what I had should grade higher. So, like the ignorant hethan that I am, I figure I'm going to show SEGS and send my cracked treasures to PCGI.
I don't want to even say how humbled I was.

matto

no offense taken at all. just fueling discussion.

Coin Finder

Matto did these go in at regular service? what was the grading time?

Thanks

Tbig

matto

sorry, I forgot to mention that.

Regular Submission

in 12/30
shipped 2/4

tonyhar

Welcome Matto.
I have just got grades on a modern submission.
Date Received 12/23/2003
Date Shipped 2/5/2004
and all the grades were one lower than expected.




edited to correct spelling mistake!

Placid

Maybe cracking them again and sending them to ngc would provide some interesting results.

matto

The two Saints will end up going to NGC. As for the Indian, as I already mentioned, I think it is probably overgraded and thus will stay in its pretty little holder. As for the standing lib. I am undecided. I know NGC is more liberal with the standing lib. series, but just haven't made my mind up on the matter yet.

darktone

11-d's come with a flat finish and if graded to the standard of other dates I could see an inexperienced grader calling an MS65 a 63. mike