Hot stove league HOF debate

jaybyrd

Which of the following players do you think is the most deserving of being a first ballot hall of fame inductee? They will all probably make it, but it could interesting to hear the members favorite. I have purposely left off the sure-fires such as Bonds, A-Rod, Maddux and Sosa

Juan Gonzalez, Edgar Martinez, Tom Glavine, Jeff Bagwell. Ken Griffey


Gonzalez and Griffey may have the better numbers, but they have been injury prone. Edgar should get in, but who know how much being a DH will affect his chances. Glavine's decision to go to the rebuilding (notice I didn't say lowly) Mets will make getting to 300 wins that much harder.

My pick out of these is Jeff Bagwell. Never 50 home runs, but always puts up big numbers and he spent the early part of his carrer in the cavernous Astrodome. A World Series title or two before his career ends should make him a sure bet.

That's my opinion, whatcha' think

MXracer

I would vote them in in this order:

Edgar Martinez
Tom Glavine
Jeff Bagwell
Juan Gonzalez
Ken Griffey

kuhlmann

Mark Mcgwire!!

And ill say rafael palmeiro i believe he should be a first time ballot hof. guy is consistent year after year.

jaybyrd

Mc Gwire will be a hall of famer, basically because of the 70 home runs and the fact the home run chase was great for baseball. But let's face he was a very one-dimensional ballplayer.

kuhlmann

Yes he was but he was also loved by the fans and the media. so he is a shoe in!
What about Palmiero? anybody else think he should get in on first ballot?

yawie99

I don't think any of those five players are first-ballot worthy. HoFers, but not on the first ballot.

jaybyrd

I just thought of another one - If Fred Mc Griff hangs on long enough to get 500 home runs, is he a hall of famer?

CADILLACN97

Gonzalez and Glavine are tough calls, Bagwell and Griffey should make it, but unless Griffey does something spectacular in the next couple of years i don't think neither will be first ballot. i would love for Mcgriff to make it in, and Palmeiro also. there are others that i personally feel are outstanding players like Frank Thomas, Julio Franco, Barry Larkin and others that i grew up watching. i am kinda disappointed that Sandberg, Mattingly, and Joe Carter haven't been inducted, so they may ALL be in trouble.

GoSoxBoSox

I don't think Glavine is a tough call at all. His numbers are very impresssive. He's won the Cy Young award and World Series. He's got a great lifetime ERA and Win %. I don't think there's any doubt he'll be a first ballot HOFer. Griffey too.

Martinez may have a tough time ever making it. How many DH's are in the Hall? He''l never get 500 HRs or 3,000 hits.

Gonzalez and Bagwell will hit 500 HR's so I doubt they'll have have trouble. If for some reason they fall short it'll be considerably tougher for them since they play OF and 1B. Tough positions competition wise.

jaybyrd

Julio Franco may be in the best shape of all active majors leaguers over 40 - but he doesn't have a snowballs chance to make the hall.

Bo Sox - May be right about Glavine, I probably have sour grapes since I am a lifelong Braves fan and he was perceived in Atlanta as being money hungry by going to the Mets.

ydsotter

Bagwell...assuming he heats back up just enough.

CADILLACN97

they are all great players, but there have been so many great players since about 1980, it is hard for me to speculate on who will get in. Glavine, i don't see. Clemens, Maddux, Johnson are all from that era, and Glavine isn't even close. great pitcher, yes, HOFer no and definately not first ballot. i have no personal issues with Glavine, he just never did it for me to expect him to make it in. great numbers yes, but pitchers with OUTSTANDING numbers have a harder time getting in than the newest member of the 500 home run club.

Julio Franco was just an example of the type of players i have grown up enjoying and watching. Ruben Sierra, Andy Van Slyke, Brett Butler, Barry Larkin, etc. i can name a hundred more players from 80 to about 95 that were great players. only because i grew up watching them. but how many in my generation will actually get in? maybe 10-20. i am sure there are players from the 60s and 70s that were great at the time and people thought they would make it and didn't. it just depends on the years i guess.

i would really like the class of 83 to get in (Gwynn, Boggs, Sandberg), Mattingly, Carter, Mcgriff, Palmeiro, Will Clark, and afew others.
Puckett is in, so is Yount and Molitor, but Mattingly and Sandberg have been overlooked how many times?

should all of these players actually be here, while others get overlooked??

highend

if edgar martinez gets in should harold baines also get in ? it will be a long shot for those guys.

i agree with cadillac, i think griffey will make it on the first ballot if he can stay healthy and put up a couple of .300+,40+ homer seasons, when he's healthy he is an impact player. i can see him finishing his career in the AL with alot of DH time and 600 hr's.

bagwell is a HOF'ER, possibly on the first ballot.

gonzalez is a surly malcontent with no fan base and is long shot to get elected at all.

does anyone think that if glavine gets in should tommy john and jim kaat also be enshrined?

Stone193

highend

That would be OK - got a PSA8 of each collecting dust - nice if they would go up. Why don't pitchers hold the value like the sluggers? By the way, wish Glavine had stayed with Atlanta - has hurt his chances - get more wins with Atlanta than NY - one of the smoothest, really paints the corners - I guess I'm kind of a fan.

Mike

kuhlmann

you guys knocking tom glavine leaving the braves for the mets. might wind up being a good choice this year. braves are gonna s@ck this year!!! not saying my mets will be any better. Tom will get 10-14 this year. thats about the same he would of with the braves.

Stone193

kuhlmann

You're not say Tom's washed up are you?

Mike

metalmike20

What about Rickey Henderson? No one has mentioned him yet. I would think he would be a first ballot hall of famer, with the overall numbers he put up he should be anyways. He never did get along with the media to well though. Also Robbie Alomar, does anyone think he has a chance? His numbers sure have slumped the last few years but he might still get 3000 hits before it's all said and done.

Mike

DeutscherGeist

Griffey has the best chance of the bunch to get in 1st ballot. It seems as though the longer he hangs on, the more he is playing himself out of the HOF.

Check the Bill James Hall Monitor to see who is likely going to get in. E Martinez is not an easy shot yet. Mattingly is ranked higher, so Edgar has some work to do. Palmeiro has been one of the most consistent players, so he should have no problems.

Will Clark and Fred McGriff will have major trouble getting in because they have to compete with Mattingly and Garvey on the ballot. Mark McGwire will soon be on the ballot. Too many great first basemen are coming on the ballot, so it will be real tough to garner enough votes to get in.

Bagwell has a good chance, but he has not really shown himself to be above Frank Thomas and Palmeiro by much, if at all.

VoteThurmanIn

HOFer Roy Campanella:

.276 Lifetime BA
Batted .300+ 3 times
100+ RBI = 3 times

Hits = 1,161
HR = 242

Source: http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/camparo01.shtml

oaktown

None of the guys mentioned in the original list are first ballot. Don't get me wrong, they're all very good players but the HOF needs to keep the bar raised for enshrinement. I think Bagwell and Glavine are the most likely to eventually get in (given just a few more productive years). Next, Griffey and Gonzalez are only around 33, so they have the opportunity to play another 5-7 years. If healthy (HUGE IF) they could reach well over 500 home runs (possibly 600) and both be in the top 20 in RBI's. Edgar's 41 so it's highly unlikely that he'll even get 2500 hits. And for a guy who's been a one deminsional DH for as long as he has, he needs bigger career numbers.

Another interesting case....a media darling....Albert "Joey" Belle. He's got some pretty insane numbers, but of course his career was cut short by injury (a la Kirby Puckett)

aro13

Interesting player selections.

On the Roy Campanella issue - he did not start playing in the majors until he was 27 and not because he was not good enough but because he was not allowed. He was an all-star for 8 out of the 10 years of his career and a 3 Time Most Valuable Player. Posting his career numbers is really not fair.

I would say no to Edgar Martinez unless he accumulates 3000 hits, which he will not.

Gonzales is only 33 and within 71 homers of 500. If he hits 500 it would be hard to exclude him.

Bagwell is only 81 homers shy of 500. Plus, he has great career numbers and an MVP. Unless, the fact that he accumulated his stats during a significant offensive period in baseball history is held against him, he should be in.

Griffey to me is a first ballot Hall of Famer with enough career stats and individual season accomplishments.

Glavine will get in but first ballot is a good question. His numbers definately warrent first ballot consideration but the perception might be that he was not "dominant" enough.

CADILLACN97

thanx ARO13!! thats what i was looking for, dominance. glavine just wasn't dominant enough. look at these from his era: clemens, maddux, johnson, and schilling. without looking at any numbers, which of these players would you most like to face, based on just what people know and say of them. i would take glavine anyday! as for the post below (or above?) rickey is a sure fire first ballot. i never really liked his arrogance, but after accomplishing what he has and then dropping down to the minor leagues to try to get back in the majors, just for the love of the game, is extremely rare. it isn't like he needs the cash. definately first ballot.
as for bagwell, great player with great numbers thus far. but if going by his numbers alone, then you would also have to include frank thomas, luis gonzalez, heck even shawn green and carlos delgado have had similar numbers. should they get in?
voting edgar in would be like voting robin ventura and olerud-won't happen!
griffey could get in right now with all his accomplishments, but it may hurt him to keep going the way he is going in the long run. i think he will still get in, maybe not on the first ballot though.

80sToyguy

If Griffey stopped playing baseball tomorrow he might not get in--even then I believe he still would. He should easily hit 500 homers, even if he only plays partial years the rest of his career. No one has ever hit 500 homers and not gotten in, although I think quite certainly that McGriff doesn't deserve to be there if he reaches 500--we'll see. I think the HOF voters give alot more credit to 10-12 year dominance than career numbers. Edgar Martinez is the best of his kind--sure, other guys played DH a bit and had some good numbers here and there, but Edgar's been a DH his entire career. Because of him I think alot of other players were able to hang around and get the numbers they needed near the end and no, Harold Baines is not a good comparison, mainly because Baines was really never in pennant races and Edgar finished like 8 times in the top 10 ten in batting and won I believe 2 batting titles. Off that first list I think Edgar is the closest to a shoe-in, all the others are iffi except for Glavine who will NOT get in, unless of course he wins 15 games or so for another 3 years, which isn't going to happen. He won his 2 Cy Young's in years when he didn't compete with much--he's always been a little over-rated in my book and if you want to take a starting staff of 4 from just the 1990's, he would not be on that staff (Clemens, Johnson, Pedro, Maddux were easily the best of the best--no one else comes close).
I agree that the bar has been raised and it's going to take a pretty special career to get in nowadays--500 homers is no longer a guarantee.
Jay

aro13

cadillacn97 - Bagwell has great career averages .300 AVE, .411 OBP and .549 SLG + over 400 homers, 1400 runs and 1400 rbis. Throw in 8 seasons over 100 runs and 100 rbis and you have a complete offensive Hall of Fame career. Other than Frank Thomas (who has also had a complete offensive career) the other players you mentioned do not equal his career averages (although Delgado is close) and are far off his career totals.

As for Glavine, he is not thought of as dominant because he has never had a huge season (even the year he won 23 games his era was over 3.00) and his pitching style does not exactly make people think of Nolan Ryan. But he will go to the Hall. Even if you rank him the 5th best pitcher of his era (after Clemens, Johnson, Pedro, and Maddux) that still would qualify as a Hall of Famer pretty easily.

Anyway, always a fun debate and everybody certainly has a differing opinion. Nice to see talk about players Hall of Fame chances other than Pete Rose