Does your coin dealer offer to buy back your purchases?
STEWARTBLAYNUMIS
Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
As a collector buying coins I always like to buy coins from a dealer who tells me that if I decide to sell I should call him first before offering the coins to others.
When I sell coins I would like to get first opportunity from the buyer.However it seems that I never get offered coins after I sell them.
What are your desires or expectations?What type of relationship do you have with your dealer?Let's hear some good stories/experiences.
Stewart Blay
0
Comments
I usually take such offers with a grain of salt. In a rising market, it's an easy promise. In a declining one, it's an empty offer.
Doug
I will say that not all coins that have been bought from him are offered back to him. Other options are available to make a few more bucks and since we are in a capatalistic enviorment the other options are used at times.
Ken
I might give you what you paid for it too....send picture first.
<< <i>Jonathan Kern gave me a WRITTEN two year full buy back guarantee at 100% of the purchase price of an 1856 FE cent in AU-50 three years ago. >>
Jon's a good dealer to buy coins from and to sell coins to - - every transaction I've had with Jon (buy or sell) has been excellent.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
A rule of thumb should be, unless a coin was bought at auction, no one should pay you more for a coin than the dealer who sold it to you.
I know this is going to sound like hype, but working with a dealer can make a big difference in your overall success as a collector.
I would say the majority of major dealers DO make 2 way markets.
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
<< <i>A rule of thumb should be, unless a coin was bought at auction, no one should pay you more for a coin than the dealer who sold it to you. >>
Laura, that sounds fine and dandy but I would expect that often, other non-dealers would be likely to pay more than the selling dealer would. And, just out of curiosity,what does the fact that a given coin sold in auction have to do with it? Either the selling dealer believes in the coin and its value or not, regardless of where it came from, right?
<< <i>I think an established dealer (store front or large volume internet) should GENERALLY buy back most of his/her coins for between 10% to 15% discount within the first year >>
Doug, I would be more concerned about whether the VALUE of the coin had changed than I would about a one year (or other) TIME period. It could be a bad deal for you if you received 85% to 90% back within a year if the coin has moved up substantially in value. Likewise, if the coin's value takes a precipitous drop in a short period of time, 85% to 90% might be way too much to reasonably expect.
"And, just out of curiosity,what does the fact that a given coin sold in auction have to do with it? Either the selling dealer believes in the coin and its value or not, regardless of where it came from, right? "
I feel this was a totally unessecary statement. You always feel you must post a rebutal to a competitor. Go pick on something else.
When I say auction, I mean a Heritage, ANR, Superior auction, etc. Or even Ebay-since many times its a "as is" sale. I dunno, I thought that was a pretty clear statement.
And I do agree there is some truth to what 291fifth said. Sad but true.
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
NEVER LET HIPPO MOUTH OVERLOAD HUMMINGBIRD BUTT!!!
WORK HARDER!!!!
Millions on WELFARE depend on you!
Camelot
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
I went to a market maker not too long ago to feel the water.
He seriously lowballed me an offer for coins that I know he would add very large premiums to. So, in this specialists case, the market maker was FULL OF CRAP, and a con man (based on his wording) to boot!
If the dealer can sell it, and make a profit, I should, without too much difficulty, be able to realize at least the same amount.
Quality counts. Too many collectors try to get too much for average stuff, and not enough for great coins.
Mark said: "And, just out of curiosity,what does the fact that a given coin sold in auction have to do with it? Either the selling dealer believes in the coin and its value or not, regardless of where it came from, right? "
Laura said: << I feel this was a totally unessecary statement. You always feel you must post a rebutal to a competitor. Go pick on something else. When I say auction, I mean a Heritage, ANR, Superior auction, etc. Or even Ebay-since many times its a "as is" sale. I dunno, I thought that was a pretty clear statement.>>
Mark says: Laura, your being a competitor has nothing to do with my remarks. I had a question about your reasoning so I asked, as I would if anyone else had said what you did. You do not get a freebie from me, just because you're a competitor. And, in case you have forgotten, I have agreed with you and supported you here, many times in the past.
I still don't understand your thinking about auctions, UNLESS you meant that the auction purchase and subsequent sale were agent bids/transactions. If that is the case, I understand your point. But, that is not what you said.
If you were speaking of auction purchases other than agent bids, please explain your comment/thinking? If you were speaking of agent bids, please try to be more clear next time.
and play nice.The dealers I deal with always have a fair buyback
policy. Sometimes I realize that they may be heavily overstocked
on a coin I want to sell. In that case they may not be able to offer
a good price for the coin and I will understand. People have to be
reasonable on both sides of the counter.
Camelot
Sorry kids, I have to go tend to my day job now. Hope things don't warm up too bad.
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
If you buy a coin, getting a buy back promise may be the thing that tips the scales and a buy back promise is better than no buy back promise, but not much better. Joe dealer who used to do business as "X", an incorporated entity, is now doing business as "Y", also an incorporated entity. Joe's promises made when he was X are not enforceable against "Y".
Promises made to buy back material are not going to be honored if the market drops significantly and the dealer is inundated by buyers who want to take advantage of the buy back promise.
Collector A buys all of his coins from dealer "M". He buys three million dollars worth of coins over a two year period. Dealer M promises to buy back the material at 10% back of the market (whatever "the market" is). Collector A now wants to retire, sell his collection back to the dealer at 10% back of the market, now that prices have risen substantially. Dealer has $50,000 in bank with $750,000 auction bill due in 30 days. Guess at what dealer tells collector?
I could paint more pictures for you, however, the truth of the matter is that dealers who make promises about buying back coins at set prices are either liars or really, really, bad business people. NOTE: I am not talking about a dealer who sells you a bunch of coins who makes no promises about them other than one really special coin which he/she makes an exception on by promising to buy back at a set price.
You should really buy your coins based upon your research and a comparison of what is in the market place and the cost of what is in the marketplace.
Having said that, it is true that buying from an established dealer who seems to be honorable has it's advantages. A dealer who knows that buying back a piece at a decent price from you will smooth the skids for future sales is more likely to treat you decently (whatever that is) than a person you meet at a coin show who you bought one coin from three years ago.
Anyway, i'm sure this topic is a can of worms that should result in a combination of serious quantities of BS and misleading information and vague statements about many things.
adrian
PS I really like some coins and that i own and would like to have them offered back to me, and then there are others that i never want to see again.
PSS If you're an honorable guy, promises to buy back coins means you never can stop being a coin dealer. Some day down the road, when i finally can rest my weary bones and begin to let the warmth of alzheimers engulf my brain, i don't want some guy at my door with a coin and a receipt that says i will buy a coin back from him at 90% of greysheet bid.
When their day of reckoning came, I was inundated with calls from their customers who had told me that they would NOT buy from me because I would not guarantee a buy back.....price.
My stock answer was and is: I will buy back any coin I wish to buy at whatever the current market happens to be.
I even lost business because I would not "store" bullion coins for customers. One of the first calls I got was from the guy who refused to buy from me (at a better price, incidentally) his 70 Krugerrands that happened to not be around after the doors closed.
They made the money......BIG MONEY.....and I lasted. Big whoop!
One of the best SCAMS is the guaranteed buy back. I would LOVE to offer it. I knew one guy who had coin buyers eating out of his hand because he would always state (in his foreign accent) "Yu buy dis coin one tousand dollardz, Yu don't like coin, bring itt back. I pay you nine hunnert! Datt vay it only cosht yu vun hunnert buckz to own coin. Iz dot nott nize?"
It worked like a charm on rubes who salivated at repeated hundred dollar losses.
Amazing.
(I don't know if it's just me, but it seems a foreign accent seems to part people from their money very easily......check out the ads on TV for managed commodity accounts)
<< <i>When I say auction, I mean a Heritage, ANR, Superior auction, etc. Or even Ebay-since many times its a "as is" sale. I dunno, I thought that was a pretty clear statement. >>
Laura, does this mean if you goofed on that MS67 slab at auction (since you were so busy and all)which is really only a 66 coin, you'll gladly pass it along at the MS67 price plus the 'usual' markup; but, heaven forbid the poor collector ever shows up again with that same coin hoping to resell for a MS67 wholesale price? Please clarify at your leisure.
????
If a person puts a coin in auction (ANY auction) , then its sold as "absolute". Has nothing to do whether I put it in or not. I don't know of ANY aution company who guarantees to make a two way market in the coins they sell. After all, auction companies are just brokers.
GREAT POST ADRIAN!
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
<< <i>GREAT POST ADRIAN! >>
See Laura, there ARE things you and I can agree on.
I assume that it was a very high grade and scarce Morgan Dollar ??
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
My purpose of this post is for anyone to find out how honest,conscientious and trustworthy your coin dealer is TODAY.
An auction has NO conscience.If a dealer or collector screws up at auction and pays through the Wazoo for a coin...its tough nuggies. I believe that a good dealer will help you out if you buy the coin from a dealer and not the auction house.
A good example is why most of the Proof 70 Moderns sell at auction.Most dealers know the pop is going UP.
Stewart
By the way, Laura (Legend) and Mark (Pinnacle) are two very good dealers, for any of you who are new to the coin gig. I would say they are outstanding but they are my competitors and so....we'll have to leave it at good.
By the way, does anyone here remember Hannes Tulving and his guarantees.....and what happened to him....and what happened to his customers?
One extremely interesting story and very germane to the topic.
adrian
I would never expect any dealer or otherwise to offer me any type of buyback on anything, buy coins at your own risk and never rely on anyone IMO.
dragon
It's been my experience that coin dealers are driven by one motive and one motive only...$$$$$$$$$, and not much else. Therefore, if a dealer ever offered me any type of buyback agreement, I would assume it's only because it was an exceptionally desirable piece they could immediatly re-sell for another profit.
dragon
I don't care if a dealer offers me a buy back or not. If it takes a buy back to help you to decide whether you should buy a particular coin or not, then it's probably not a coin you want or should be buying.
As a dealer:
It's nice to have a buy back. If you can't sell the coin then you have a way out of it. It's ALMOST like getting the coin on memo.
If you are buying the right kind of coins. (the coins bringing the big premiums these days, choice & problem free) Believe me you will have NO PROBLEM having the dealer who sold them to you wanting to buy them back. I would love to buy back most of the coins I've sold this past year alone. Most, if not all, would be at a profit to the buyers. There's several coins I could almost offer double what they paid. In less than ONE YEAR.
I remember asking him if he was worried that someone would substitute a different coin than the one they originally purchased. Leonard just shrugged and said something to the effect that if the buyer could live with what he did, so could he. How times have changed!
Leonard also would allow people to take coins home with them without paying and either return the coins or pay for them when they were back in downtown Chicago. I often wondered how this turned out for him.
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
Something to look for in an honost dealer is do they change attitudes when you offer them the coins back they sold you, For example, if the only thing you heard from the dealer before you bought the coin was; I can't go any lower on that coin. it cost me way above grey sheet ask and I'm only making 10 % on the coin as it is, then the market is hot, hot, hot, untill you need to sell and he tells you on the other end of the deal that he couldn'y possibly pay you more then 75 % of what you paid even though the market is "exploding nuclear, hot, etc...etc...blah blah blah.
I've had dealers treat me fair in this situationn, I've also had dealers that have treated me poorly, guess which ones I'd buy from again ???
Market ups and downs I can live with, but don't hand me the b.s. about how you had to pay extra for the coin so my price is higher then gouge me on buying back a coin even though the market for the coin has gone up or at least not gone down.
Les
Another client "invested" a little less than 100K in some early coins with me over the course of 3 years and we just sold them for over 200K at an ANR auction. Needless to say, he too called me after the sale is is making another purchase.
Some do, some don't.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
My experience is that my purchases are almost NEVER, EVER sold back to the selling dealer. Just the way it works. I think I have had one offer to buy back a coin in the past 30 years.
roadrunner
David
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Several years ago when I was collecting high end ms65 and up toned Buffalos and put together almost the complete set, I had to sell my entire set for personal reasons........ Keeping in mind that all of my coins were, and or PCGS graded, and that I was very selective on my choice of coins, only buying the very best I could find for the grade, I called Mark and Mike to see if they were interested in buying back my coins and that is exactly what they did paying me a handsome profit to boot!
My point to this story is that if you have a good relationship with a trusted reputable dealer, and have been buying coins from them, they will be fair with you if you want to sell your coins back to them..... On the other hand if you are buying coins helter skelter and from everybody and their brother, don't expect to get the best price from any dealer for your coins.
That's very accurate and well put.
Tom Pilitowski
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I am a helter skelter buyer! I like the challenge of finding the coins I want!
I guess, no dealer will pay their best price when I am ready to sell!
But if you're buying common to moderately scarce stuff, then I guess it doesn't matter.
Happy collecting
TP
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870