1992d Lincoln Close AM not recognized by PCGS.......
Manorcourtman
Posts: 8,010 ✭✭✭✭✭
After waiting almost 2 months for my 1992d Lincoln CLOSE AM to be graded and recognized as a simple "mint error" by PCGS, I get it back today not recognized as anything but a MS64RD penny. It's in the freakin Red Book for pete's sake!! Two months of patience to be slapped in the face. I have had 2 of them including the one recognized by NGC as "Close AM" and included in their pop report. The penny is clearly Close AM and anyone can clearly see with the naked eye the difference between a regular 92d penny and this extremely rare coin. The delays in grading have been very upseting but this delay and utter incompetence is ridiculous. It took NGC about ten days to research it and slab it Close AM.
What do you Lincoln experts think I should do now? I'm just going to send it to NGC unless someone can give me a decent reason not to. And no I did not call PCGS customer service to be told the graders don't make these kind of mistakes. How can they miss the boat on an obvious coin like this??? And yes I will post pics of the two coins if you have any doubts. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....
M.
What do you Lincoln experts think I should do now? I'm just going to send it to NGC unless someone can give me a decent reason not to. And no I did not call PCGS customer service to be told the graders don't make these kind of mistakes. How can they miss the boat on an obvious coin like this??? And yes I will post pics of the two coins if you have any doubts. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....
M.
0
Comments
Just because its in the RedBook doesnt mean PCGS recognizes it.
They take a cautious approach when attributiing varieties no doubt.
RELLA
who boasts of twenty years experience in his craft
while in fact he has had only one year of experience...
twenty times.
M. A small collector
The Lincoln cent store:
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USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
There are collectors who are interested in varieties and they would like to see these attributed.
It's likely that eventually even PCGS will grade a lot more different varieties since this does seem
to be the way collectors are going.
<< <i>I'm a Lincoln cent collector who does NOT collect these so called varieties because it doesn't interest me. I recognize other Lincoln cent collectors do collect these kind of coins and that's fine. I don't think PCGS needs to make everything like this part of the registry. If enough people start collecting these coins like they do the 1922 plain, the 1944 D/S, the 1955DD & 1972DD, etc. then I might become interested. In the meantime, please don't assume that EVERY Lincoln cent collector wants that 1992D cent in their collection. Steve. >>
I don't think ANYONE said ANYTHING about EVERY collector wanting to collect die varieties, nor did ANYONE say ANYTHING about PCGS recognizing them in "registry sets." What would be nice is if they got with the program and at least recognized their existence. It's fine that not everyone is interested in them, that part I can understand. But because a person isn't interested in them doesn't make them any less valid (hence your "so called" comment, which was unnecessary) than anything else anyone chooses to collect. There is a definite market for them, the market for them is growing, there are national clubs and websites devoted to them, and there are a number of people who join these clubs and websites. They do indeed have validity.
Now...as for value and which ones are valuable...well, that's partially obvious. The ones that are easily visible without magnification are going to be more valuable than others, while the other ones that take substantial (16x) magnification to see are going to typically be less valuable. Just because the "others" are less valuable doesn't make them non-collectible nor does it remove their validity for what they are. Understandably it will decrease the number of people who want to collect them, but there are still plenty of people out there who do collect the minor ones and are willing to give more than a couple of bucks to have examples of certain dies. There are some of the lesser visible ones that are quite rare and valuable just because there are very few examples known to exist - and "registry set" collectors skip over them and sell or trade them as "normal coins of high grade" every day. We die variety hunters like to pray on that type.
It's a challenge and the "thrill of the hunt" for die variety collectors, it's not an investment for profit. We have learned to have fun with what we collect and not ALWAYS look out for a dollar sign when we collect. It's a tedious task to attribute die varieties, especially the minor ones, and it's a challenge even for the experienced hunters. One thing it is NOT for is people who cannot pay attention to detail, cannot understand the minting process, and cannot have the patience to look through thousands and thousands of coins to find the cherries for their collection. If you're impatient, don't bother...but if you like a real challenge in collecting, try it, you might like it.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
I remember when the 2000 Ty2's hit, a got some raw, and called PCGS to see if they were attributing them. Whoever I talked to said, yes they did, just specify on the submission form. I happily sent them in, and waited (and waited...
They came back just like yours: graded as a common 2000 penny (I did wonder what PCGS people thought, about some lunkhead paying a submission fee for a common 2000 penny. My son speculated that they probably figured I was just crazy).
Anyhow, I came on here, sought sympathy (successfully) and griped about it. Carol gave me some free submissions, as I recall, in apology, and PCGS then clarified when I called them that, indeed, they were not attributing the Type 2s.
I sent them in to NGC at that point, BTW, who did correctly atrribute them.
As you know, PCGS did eventually come around, and began attributing the Type 2s on the slab.
Being in the Red Book is a huge boost for a variety, but does not ipso facto assure PCGS will attribute it, at least immediately. As Supercoin will tell you, it sometimes takes some harrassment and lobbying from people to get PCGS to crack on some of these.
I expect PCGS will eventually come around--but you definitely have to bring up the issue with homerhall and his minions at every opportunity. In the meanwhile, don't presume PCGS will attribute it. Check it out beforehand!
You may not get the facts straight even so, but at least you'll get some free submissions out if it!
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
I think it fair to assume that this really is the 1992 Close AM since you have studied these coins pretty carefully. Many of us, including me, have never seen one. In fact, I don't think I've even seen a picture of one. I guess it is like the 1998-1999-2000 Wide AM in reverse!
I suppose that PCGS wouldn't recognize it as a "mint error" because it is not in Cherrypickers. I believe that they recognize few, if any, Lincoln varieties that are not assigned FS numbers as "mint errors." It seems to me that this should be an exception because it is in the new Red Book. It's not a big deal for them to recognize it as a "mint error." Recognizing it as a "primary" variety and including it in the pop report is a different thing; I understand why they are reluctant to do that - but a "mint error" - why not?
On the other hand, what is the advantage to you to have it in a PCGS slab?
If you see an advantage, I'd suggest you raise the issue with David Hall in a polite, well reasoned email. He is usually responsive to something like that. I don't think he would require a "presidential review."
If I have an esoteric variety, I feel more comfortable having ANACS or NGC slab it and certifiy it first. If I really, really want it in a PCGS holder, then I'd cross it. Costs a few bucks more, but makes me feel more comfortable.
Thanks for your input. I will post pics in the morning. The reverse is the "PUP." Sorry noone has posted pics of the coin. I will be happy to do it.
Chris