Grade the Bust Half Dollar

Baley

Do the scratches bother you?

Net grade? Value?

or Avoid at any cost?

XpipedreamR

AU50. I thought it was fake when I first looked at it. Maybe because of the dipped luster.

dorkkarl

ms-60,

neg's are too white, scratches, common variety
plusses are outstanding strike, well-centered, great luster

to me it's a $300 coin. pop it in your w-r for 20 years, & i'll double my offer (plus inflation)

K S

Nysoto

Baley,

AU58 details, $250 value, nice luster. I bought a similar half about 5 years ago with MS63+ details but a single 8mm scratch, too deep for a staple scratch and deeper than the coin in the image, must have been a screwdriver. After much negotiation, I paid $140 for it.

It could be difficult to sell.

BigD5

Au details, net au. I've had a couple of bust halves come back from ANACS with that net grade.

Baley

Thanks guys, that's along the lines of what I was thinking, it's a shame about the scratches because it really has nice luster that I can't capture well with my camera, anyway it cost about $130 and I think it is a lot of coin for an EF45 price, here are a couple more pics in slightly different light:





Al O. lists the 105 as an R4 with Condition census (65, 63, 60, 60, 60) but unfortunately this one is obviously quite a bit down the list. Any more guesses? It's "certified" by PCI.

Draco

I really like it. I'd say AU details net EF45 (40 if the scratch is bad enough). I would certainly agree with you that you got a nice coin for the price.

Baley

Anyone else want to hazard a guess as to what PCI graded this coin?

goose3

new or old PCI?

NEW PCI...........MS62

OLD AU55

Baley

goose3, you are a good guy, that is correct!



I actually kind of agree with the grade on this one, that is if you assume that the number is a detail grade, the red border and the "scratch" notation is supposed to alert you that you're supposed to net it down yourself, not that it grades that number as if the coin were problem-free.

Not everyone wants to own coins like this tho...

Baley

how does one tell "new PCI" from "old PCI"?

which is this? Must be new, since it has the 62 and not the 55.

Is PCI like SEGS in that they put a "detail" grade and describe problems,
leaving the "netting" part to the buyer and seller?

Numismanic

Nice coin Baley, I like the way the tops of the stars reach out to the rim, late die state?

Don

Stuart

Baley: That's a very attractive Bust Half, and well worth your cost! As Karl mentioned earlier in this thread, the coin has great luster, strong strike and is well-centered.

This is a perfect example of a "collector" coin rather than in "investor" coin, because it is a very lightly circulated high grade AU coin with tons of eye appeal!! This choice AU coin has alot more design detail than most choice Unc Bust Halves because of its strong strike.

I also like the way that the outer-most star points are elongated towards the rim of this coin, which I have learned indicates progressively later die state.

Thanks for sharing a beautiful Bust Half with us!

Dennis88

joecool

Baley

thanks guys, yes the way the stars are "drawn" out toward the rim, extending and elongating the outer point, is indicative of a later die state. Perhaps someone who knows more about the effect can elaborate on the details of this phenomenon. Looks kinda neat though, huh?

mgoodm3

Scratches less obvious on first images. High AU otherwise. Pretty.

Stuart

Baley: You may wish to refer to the following Link to my previous 1826 Bust Half thread in which Cardinal was kind enough to contribute his expertise, commenting that the stars on my coin that are elongated towards the rim (as with your coin) are indicative of a later die state.

I first heard about this through Cardinal's observation of my coin. Thanks Cardinal -- I've already learned alot from you on Bust Dollars and Halves! ...and I've got a lot more learning to do...

Elli

Cool coin.

MS62.

Nysoto

This half could very well be an intermediate die state (Baley, is O.105 the first or second usage of the obverse die? no O book handy). The stars are not fully drawn, and the dentilation on the rims is still very sharp. Every die marriage is different with die states. I have some high grade bust halves that have blunt rims with no dentilation, and all stars drawn out.

Some half dies were worn to oblivian, others failed with shattered dies, some had massive bisecting die breaks in the earlier years. Many of the 1805 and 1806 halves had peripheral stress die cracks that led to eventual rim cuds. Interestingly, no rim cuds have been found on bust halves after 1807.

In the earlier years, the use of spray hardening on the dies produced uneven hardness, leading to some of the die failures. The large bisecting cracks were caused by improper forging.

In the 1820's and 1830's the forging/hardening/tempering process improved, with less die failure from cracks. You will see more worn dies with drawn stars and blunt rims during this period, and you will note the mintage per die ratio increases during these years.

Baley

Actually, the O.105 is the third pairing for this obverse (obverse no. 2); it was used with reverse C for the O.103, with reverse D for the O.104, and with this reverse, E, making the O.105.

Overton calls this one 2-s2 "same as 2 except all stars are drawn to edge."

I would agree that this coin is from an early strike of the marriage, looking at Al's plate coin, his stars are all more drawn than this example. Stars 7 and 8 on this coin are particularly well-formed.