PCGS Fans: Tooled Coin in an NGC Slab
elwood
Posts: 2,414 ✭
At Long Beach another dealer and I were going to buy a 1796 Half in an NGC-20 Slab. Upon closer examination we noticed that all the Radial Lines in the stars had been re-cut. We passed on the coin and told the owner he should return it to NGC and get his money out of the coin. What a shame, pretty nice coin too.
To keep things fair, I have also seen an 1823 Large Cent in a PCGS holder which had had the hair re-engraved. I think this is quite common for these Classic Heads and something you should always keep in mind when looking to buy one. Especially the 21, 23 & 24's, since they bring more money in the higher grades.
The grading services are not infalable. Just because it is in a holder you still have to examine it closely. For those of you buying on line, relying on photo's and the grading services opinion, you are taking a risk. If it's a coin from an auction have a friend or a trusted dealer take a look at it in person. Even if you have to pay the dealer a small fee to do it, you will be money ahead.
One other example: A friend of mine was considering bidding on an early Bust Half. An 1801 in a PCGS-40 Holder. He showed up at the auction to bid on the coin without examining it. He told me he was going to buy it. I asked if he had looked at the coin and he said, No. I told him how someone had taken a pin, needle, knife or some sharp object and made a deep gouge, tracing the inside of the 0 in the date. Needless to say he didn't bid on the coin and thanked me for the heads up.
To keep things fair, I have also seen an 1823 Large Cent in a PCGS holder which had had the hair re-engraved. I think this is quite common for these Classic Heads and something you should always keep in mind when looking to buy one. Especially the 21, 23 & 24's, since they bring more money in the higher grades.
The grading services are not infalable. Just because it is in a holder you still have to examine it closely. For those of you buying on line, relying on photo's and the grading services opinion, you are taking a risk. If it's a coin from an auction have a friend or a trusted dealer take a look at it in person. Even if you have to pay the dealer a small fee to do it, you will be money ahead.
One other example: A friend of mine was considering bidding on an early Bust Half. An 1801 in a PCGS-40 Holder. He showed up at the auction to bid on the coin without examining it. He told me he was going to buy it. I asked if he had looked at the coin and he said, No. I told him how someone had taken a pin, needle, knife or some sharp object and made a deep gouge, tracing the inside of the 0 in the date. Needless to say he didn't bid on the coin and thanked me for the heads up.
Please visit my website prehistoricamerica.com www.visitiowa.org/pinecreekcabins
0
Comments
<< <i>At Long Beach another dealer and I were going to buy a 1796 Half in an NGC-20 Slab. Upon closer examination we noticed that all the Radial Lines in the stars had been re-cut. We passed on the coin and told the owner he should return it to NGC and get his money out of the coin. What a shame, pretty nice coin too. >>
you have GOT TO BE KIDDING?!?!?! your complaining that, ohmygosh, a 1796 HALF DOLLAR had been tooled???
dude, what are you smoking???
IT'S A 1796 HALF!!! WHO CARES if the stars have been re-cut??? WHO CARES if it was holed & pluged? WHO CARES if it's been bent & cleaned??? WHO CARES WHO CARES WHO CARES???
like, are there just SO MANY of these around that you can always find a nicer 1?
IT'S NOT A BLAST-WHITE OR MONSTER TONED OR DMPL MORGAN DOLLAR!!!
the stupidity would be if pcgs REFUSED to slab a coin like that.
<< <i>A friend of mine was considering ... An 1801 in a PCGS-40 Holder. ... I told him how someone had taken a pin, needle, knife or some sharp object and made a deep gouge, tracing the inside of the 0 in the date. Needless to say he didn't bid on the coin and thanked me >>
he should have kicked your A55! same thing - are you saying that there are just SO MANY 1801 halves in Xf that there were dozens to choose from??? where does this mentality come from??? if it were any of a billion average common morgan dollars, i'd be worried, but a 1801 bust half???
something's wrong w/ this picture!!!
K S
I would care if a coin I owned no matter what it was had been altered. you might think it is OK but it is not OK to me, no matter what coin it is.
K S
I was under the impression that NGC did not do this. Maybe their policy has changed. IMHO, as the sea of raw classics dries up, the big 2 will do near anything to turn a buck.
NEVER LET HIPPO MOUTH OVERLOAD HUMMINGBIRD BUTT!!!
WORK HARDER!!!!
Millions on WELFARE depend on you!
i'll pay you 5% over silver spot for it!
K S
Whoa DUDE.......CHILL
<< <i>dude...what are you smoking???? >>
Obviously it's not as good as what you are. Thank God!!!
<< <i>he should have kicked your a$$ >>
I think it's you that needs your a$$ kicked.
It's clear that you no nothing about early coinage.
<< <i>WHO CARES, WHO CARES, WHO CARES >>
I CARE and 99% of the collectors I know CARE.
<< <i>like, are there just so many of these around that you can always find a nicer 1 >>
Actually in the last 6 months I've seen 4 better and at least another 5 of lesser quality.
DID YOU EVEN THINK TO ASK WHAT THE SELLING PRICE WAS? NO!!!!! Would you pay $50,000 for a tooled VF-20 (actually F-12-15, with a very weak reverse) Offer me $55,000.00 and I'll see if he still has it. I'm sure you would buy it sight unseen. It is a 1796 Half afterall.
PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!!!!
<< <i>are you saying that there are just SO MANY 1801 halves in EF that there were dozens to choose from??? where does this mentality come from??? >>
It comes from attending all the major shows and auctions. Hitting dozens of small shows all over the country.
Do you know anything about 1801 halves??? They are not rare or didn't you know that??? Tough, yes but not rare. They're only an R-3. I've seen at least 6 in EF or better in the last 4 months. Four of which are for sale right now. I have 3 VF's in inventory.
Would you pay $11,000+ for an 1801 in EF with graffiti. If you want it I know who owns it????
<< <i>somethings wrong with this picture >>
What's wrong is: The next time you choose to reply to a thread show a little more respect and it wouldn't hurt to show that you have at least some understanding of the topic you are replying to.
What a dork!!! Just skip the karl!!
<< <i>It's clear that you no nothing about early coinage. >>
yeah, but i know a couple things...
<< <i>I CARE and 99% of the collectors I know CARE. >>
then your hanging out w/ the wrong collectors, & you obviously have idiots for customers (which kinda makes sense...). you wanna deal in REAL coins, like draped-bust halves, you better start getting real customers, cuz whoever told you you can pick up a VF DRAPED BUST SMALL EAGLE HALF any time you want is obviously victim of a failed triple-bypass lobotomy.
<< <i><< like, are there just so many of these around that you can always find a nicer 1 >> Actually in the last 6 months I've seen 4 better and at least another 5 of lesser quality. >>
exactly how many of 'em did you buy???
<< <i>DID YOU EVEN THINK TO ASK WHAT THE SELLING PRICE WAS? NO!!!!! Would you pay $50,000 for a tooled VF-20 (actually F-12-15, with a very weak reverse) Offer me $55,000.00 and I'll see if he still has it. I'm sure you would buy it sight unseen. It is a 1796 Half afterall. >>
DUUUuuuh, that's right, you didn't even mention price, now did you? you just automatically assumed that since it had "re-cut stars", gee it must be a piece of crap! and what are you babbling w/ this "sight unseen" b.s??? you trying to say that some of your customers are so stupid they would buy a 55000 coin SIGHT UNSEEN, & YOU WOULD LET THEM???
<< <i>Do you know anything about 1801 halves??? They are not rare or didn't you know that??? Tough, yes but not rare. They're only an R-3. >>
duh yeah, that would be r3 ... IN ALL GRADES!!! ooohhhh, i get it, according to you, they are not rare, but just "tough" in xf, right??? now, who's doesn't know anything about 1801 halves???
<< <i> I've seen at least 6 in EF or better in the last 4 months >>
big deal, i can see that many at any bhnc meeting. difference is, they're not for sale.
<< <i>Would you pay $11,000+ for an 1801 in EF with graffiti. If you want it I know who owns it???? >>
$900 take it or leave it.
you totally miss the point, which is, your playing "coin dealer" & doing your "friend" a disservice by telling him that a "problem" 1796 coin isn't worth even bothering with - AS IF THERE'S A MILLION MORE OUT THERE. are you really a dealer?
or a wannabe?
K S
if you just wanna call me dork, that's fine too.
K S
Don't mind DorkKarl. He's just one of those board members who's prone to wigging out when expressing his point of view.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Still, I'd love to have a PCGS G-4 1797 half, if I could afford it.
Tom
<< <i>Don't mind DorkKarl. He's just one of those board members who's prone to wigging out when expressing his point of view. >>
hey!!!
actually, i'll tell you what really got me riled up, which is that i happen to be the VERY PROUD owner of a "problem" d.b. small eagle. it is bent, straightened, holed, plugged, cleaned, tooled & retoned. but guess what, it has vf details, too. i absolutely LOVE the coin, & there is no way in he11 i could ever have afforded this much detail for what i paid for it. AND, i have turned down DOUBLE the $$$ for it (of course some time ago).
the point is, there are certain coins where there is no way you can lose $, where "grade" really is no issue, & "problems" are totally irrelevant. this coin is 1 of them. others would be a 1794 dollar, 1802 half-dime, 1823/2 quarter. to me, it doesn't matter in the slightest what kind of so-called "problems" such coins have, it is idiotic, absurd if pcgs & ngc won't slab them. again, it's not like there's a whole lot of 'em to go around.
K S