Opened a 77'T Baseball wax pack

RayBShotz · February 2, 2004 8:25AM

Opening wax packs, in general, is a risky proposition. Just for kicks, and it had been a while since I opened any old wax (relative term) I bought a 77'T Baseball wax pack recently for $15.00 ( the going rate; give or take a few bucks).
With an eye on the 72' or later set registry special ($5/card) I decided to take a shot and see if I could come up with anything worth grading.
In the 77' set there are only about 30 cards that book in the SMR so in a 660 card set this gives me a less than 5% chance of pulling even one of those cards. At $15.00 I am into this for $1.50/card to start.
Results:
Typical of old wax top and bottom card are uselessly stained. (Both commons).
$1.85/card now.
As I slowly peeled off each card hopeing to pull an ace I soon realize this pack is a dud as far as stars go. Ok lets analyze these commons more carefully. (8 left).
4 cards are dreadfully OC. 4 left (3.75/card).
1 card has an ever so slight corner ding. 3 left ($5.00/card).

The last 3 are quite nice. The best of the lot is a blazing Bill Buckner! (The irony of it all). Perfectly centered just dripping with gloss this card is a keeper. An Angels team card and an Expo's common are both PSA 9 potential also. Now; at $5.00/card and $5 for the grading fees I need PSA 9 on all 3 to hit the theoretical break even. SMR is $30/each but the 77's are realistically going on ebay for between $10-$15 each. Those of you who have submitted 77's know going 3 for 3 PSA 9's will be a tall order. Common sense says at least one of these will 8.

Just a very plain vanilla example of why it's really tough to come out on top breaking wax packs.
I'll submit the 3 cards anyway and let you all know how this story turns out.

I would be grateful to any pack breakers or 77' collectors commenting on this adventure.
RayB69Topps

CreeperKat · February 2, 2004 8:39AM

If you change your mind on submitting the Angels Team card or if you plan on selling it when you get it back, let me know.

FB · February 2, 2004 7:32PM

Ray,

I hope to heck that you have other cards to submit at the same time! With the shipping charges with insurance that you'll incur from PSA - you're talking about tacking on a quick $12 from the start!

Very cool post!

See why I don't buy 72 wax at $100+ a throw!?!?!?!?!?!

oldguy · February 2, 2004 8:45PM

nice

packCollector · February 2, 2004 9:32PM

Frank, what , you don't want to open 72 wax and get 9 o/c cards and 1 with a gum stain. I opened 4 packs, series 1-4, a while back and got 1 centered card. opened 2 5th/6th series and got 8 centered , I actually made out on those 2. still fun. Just opened a pack last week from a different box and amazingly I got 6 cards that were centered out of the 8 possible. The gum card was also centered. we'll see if the graders like me this week.

the thrill of opening wax can't be beat but when you pull that o/c card you want to cry. I pulled a butkus rookie , 66 philly bart starr , 61 fleer jim brown, and a 71 calvin murphy rookie all in the last year. every one was o/c.

RayBShotz · February 2, 2004 11:07PM

Frank,

The balance of the cards I have are 72's (17). Just looking to add a few more assorted to get through that 25 threshold.

I once had an outstanding 77' raw set which I sold a few years ago to fund my 69' PSA efforts. Sort of miss it. Who knows, maybe I will....... :-)

RayB69Topps

Oh and packcollector; it was somewhat thrilling. It's been a while since busting te last wax pack.

ctsoxfan · February 2, 2004 11:54PM

Cool post, RayB. I just bought some '78 and '79 cellos at a show Sunday, and hope I can make out alright on them. The way I see it, I was either buying a box of the latest modern stuff, and hoping for one nice RC, or I might get real lucky on these and pull a nice Ozzie Smith RC! (one can dream, right?)

helionaut · February 3, 2004 12:49AM

Good post. I've got two-thirds of a 75 Topps rack pack sitting in my closet that I'm inching closer to opening. The top 2 cards are both total losses. But I think there are some good cards in the middle where I can see the border colors. Naturally, I expect to get at a Brett rookie from the green/purple cards and there's a red/yellow that I expect to be a very nice Rose, but I'm realistic. Reading posts like this make it easier to keep it sealed a little longer.

GoSoxBoSox · February 3, 2004 1:25AM

<< <i>Just a very plain vanilla example of why it's really tough to come out on top breaking wax packs.
I'll submit the 3 cards anyway and let you all know how this story turns out.
>>

I hear that. I recently opened two boxes of 1980 baseball wax and one of 1979 football wax.

I found about 30 baseball cards and 18 football cards I think are sold 9's. A few have a chance at 10. We'll know in about 2 months!!

packCollector · February 3, 2004 1:36AM

<< Just a very plain vanilla example of why it's really tough to come out on top breaking wax packs.
I'll submit the 3 cards anyway and let you all know how this story turns out.
>>

but did you have fun and enjoy it??

GoSoxBoSox · February 3, 2004 1:44AM

<< <i><< Just a very plain vanilla example of why it's really tough to come out on top breaking wax packs.
I'll submit the 3 cards anyway and let you all know how this story turns out.
>>

but did you have fun and enjoy it?? >>

I know I did. Want some gum?

Fuzz · February 3, 2004 2:56AM

Cracking old stuff is a thrill like no other. But the opened stuff sells on "a chance of what might be" but seldom is. From a financial perspective, but it right. It helps. It usually turns into a small lose that way. But at least it is not a big loss.
I pop'd a 1954 "Christmas rack" for Christmas '02. They were end of the year re-wraps. Don't know what happened to the cards in between the first sale and the re-wrap, but it wasn't good. I got a pack with two stars on back cheap so that it would be so painful. Have not submitted cards but doubt if there is a 7 in the bunch of 12.
I am currently sifting a 64 high number vendor and placing in sleeves. The corners are great. The centering on the front isn't too bad. What is killing me is when you flip it over and it is o/c or even m/c on the back. I bought it well though so I suspect to break even on the project. Though a few 9's there go a long way to the purchase price.
My only other advice is up the volume. The more you open, the better the price (via discount) and the more chance of something nice falling out. It is easier to catch lightening in a bottle if you have a bigger bottle.
Good Luck,
Fuzz

Southsider · February 3, 2004 3:07AM

I bought a box of 1983 Topps Football wax packs for fun. What that gum does to those cards just isn't right. I thought I'd be happy getting a decent Allen, Singletary, or McMahon RC, but the only Singletary was destroyed by the gum and the 2 Allen rookies were horribly OC tb and lr. But, it was fun ripping 20 year old packs.

downgoesfrazier · February 3, 2004 3:42AM

RayB,
3 MINT 9's out of one wax pack from '77 is really solid. Generally, you can expect ONE mint card--or desireable card with no distractions--for every 3-5 PACKS! I have pulled as little as 6 mint cards from a wax box and as many as nineteen. Those numbers sure don't pencil with the cost of unopened vs. what end users are typically willing to pay. If you're not having fun, you're just tossing money away. Good luck with the Buckner. There's nothing that trips my trigger like a dripping wet with gloss, big-color, focused and sharp '77. Buckner is a cool card at that.

dgf

miami3 · February 3, 2004 10:35PM

I used to dable quite a bit in unopened packs in the late 70's through the late 80's so I will throw my two cents in.

In fact I sold Mark Murphy (a.k.a- the basball card kid) his first pack of cards at a card show in Greenwich,CT. at the old Greenwich High School Gym way back in 1983- I believe it was a 1973 Topps baseball 5-6-7 mixed series wax pack. Ted Williams was the guest signer, I think that the autographs were something like $5.00 each.

Yes, its true that it is a lot of fun opening up older packs to see whats inside, but the fact is that the odds are probably 90-10 against you that you will pull anything gradeable to break even on your investment. Rack Packs will give you the best shot at nicer cards, cellos could be OK if the corners are not dinged, but I would stay away from wax packs totally.

If you are into it for the fun, then thats one thing. Spend your cash and have fun ripping open the pack, chewing the old gum and feeling the nostalgia.

But if you are looking to pull PSA 9 and 10 cards out of the packs you are better off putting your hard earned cash on black or red in Vegas.

.......................................Just my two cents!

packCollector · February 3, 2004 11:13PM

if anyone wants a chem, I have a stack of 72 gum sitting at home.

most of the packs I have opened have not turned aprofit but it is fun. Usually you will get a small loss for your entertainment , I have had bigger losses taking the wife to the movies.

the best luck I have had opening packs is 2 66 philly cellos that I opened in september. I had about 500 into the 2 packs. I pulled 4 psa 9's and about 11 psa 8's. also pulled a bart starr and the checklist but centering held them to 7's. So I didn't pull the big rookies from the 2 packs but I got lucky and centering was good. anyone who knows this philly issue knows I got lucky because 15 psa 8 plus centered cards out of 22 is unheard of.

one thing i will say is it's not like when you were a kid, I went so slow from card to card cherishing every moment. when your yound it takes all of 6 secongs to open 2 packs

by the way , anyone looking for a pack fresh trammell/molitor rookie with the nastiest gum stain you could ever imagine? I pulled that one in the beginning of last year

jmoran19 · February 4, 2004 12:01AM

I concentrate on 70's stuff. Whenever I was lucky enough to get 2 or more unopened packs of the same year/series, I would open one. I seem to have a knack for picking the pack that contains Pete Rose. Here are some highlites:

1970 series 4 wax - Bill Maz. only star. 4 sent in for grading, 1 PSA 9

1970 series 6 wax - Pete Rose #580, graded PSA 9. 3 others graded, 1 PSA 10 (#572)

1971 series 1 rack - 2 Rose's and 2 Dave Concepcion's. One Rose worth grading, came back PSA 8. The other Rose is nicer but is o/c left-right. One section of cards were all o/c but 28 cards from the other 2 sections were sent in for grading, 22 8's, no nines.

1972 series 4/5 rack - Pulled a Bench and R. Jackson plus a few hall of famers IA. Got a huge deal on this rack as it was split and missing the header card. 21 cards sent in for grading, 2 9's and 19 8's including 2 low pop's at that time.

1973 series 1 wax - Pulled Rose again but he is off center. None sent in for grading, as only grading key cards for 1973.

All and all I've had extremely good luck opening packs so far.

packCollector · February 5, 2004 1:35AM

well all this talking about opening packs gave me the fever again. i opened 3 - 72 1/2 series packs and 1- 5/6 series pack. well my track record continues, the only star I pulled was mays in action and of course it is o/c. It was fun but will not financially rewarding, maybe 7 cards will get a psa 9 and 1 high number has a shot at a 10, the rest are miserably o/c. the cards on the 1/2 series had the back of the card to the seal so as irony would have it, the 3 cards with the wax stain on the back are all 50-50 centered.

anyway it was fun and there is nothing like opening a pack removing the 1st card and seeing the back of the mays in action and that anticipation of flipping it over hoping it is centered.

Fuzz · February 5, 2004 4:46AM

There is a thrill similar waiting to turn over the Mays card.
Next time you are in ATl. City, put $50 on each of the hard ways. Every through of the dice there after is exciting. Just like like the Mays.
Better luck next time on the Mays, and good luck on the commons. If that one card 10's then it should work out pretty good.
Fuzz

1967topps · February 6, 2004 7:34AM

The main reason I dont collect much past '74 is that my 2 favorite players from 1967, Norm
Cash and Cleon Jones were about done by then. And experience is showing there isn't
much market for years past then...Heck I couldn't break a thousand selling a 1973 complete
set last year, with a great-quality Schmidt rookie even.

As for packs, I always open anything I buy. Finally got around to sending in a first series
1967 pack - selected cards - maybe I'll get a desirable PSA 8 for Duke Sims...SMR says $15 for an 8
try to find one for that price.

Anyway, yeah, opening packs is mostly a crap shoot unless you happen to have a common
that you either really need or its a guy you really like. Are you sending in those 3 "must be 9's"?

Rabies Shots, huh? clever!

1967topps · February 6, 2004 7:39AM

So what year from the 70's has the best tasting gum here in 2004?

Paul who liked buying cards in the 60s and 70s for both the cards and the gum?
Ate as many as 20 pieces in one day. My dentist loves me!

RayBShotz · February 6, 2004 8:30AM

1967Topps - All 3 will go to PSA with the 72'-present special. I may just bust another pack before end of the month when special ends.
I keep you all updated.
RayB69Topps

RayBShotz · March 5, 2004 5:11AM

Well guys these cards are back. Based on the overall submission it appears that the grader of death resurfaced to look at these. Remember the 3 77's came right out of a GAI certified wax pack.

The #27 Buckner dripping with gloss; sure shot 9 came back unholdered evidence of trimming...right out of the pack!
The #34 Angels Team card came back PSA 8.
The #593 Expos common dennis Blair came back PSA 8.

Not too good.

A second pack yielded even worse results. I picked the 3 best cards.
The #144 Sutter came back PSA 7
The #424 Brye came back PSA 8
The #614 Gross came back PSA 7.

Disaster.

Lucky that part of the submission was not a serious investment. I also sent in a batch of 20 or so 1972's that came back mostly 6,7,8. All were very nice. I did better on a recent submission of 60's cards than I faired here.

Deductions from this:
1. Pack breaking 70's material will certainly be a very tough crap shoot.
2. The POP report for late 70's material shows a pretty large pct. of 9's and 10's. I wonder just how much material does one have to scorch through before finding 9/10 gradeable example.
3. This is why a set like DownGoesFrazier's 77 set is so monumentally impressive! I am in awe.

gemint · March 5, 2004 8:23AM

Sorry to hear that Ray. If you resubmit the Buckner, it very likely would holder. It's probably fine. Check though to make sure it isn't miscut.

downgoesfrazier · March 5, 2004 10:58AM

Ray,
Thanks for the kind words. Doesn't sound like you did too bad at all, really. The fact is, the amount of submittable cards (assuming my standards) that I pull from a wax box is on average 6-10 cards. I avoid wax now. I finally started tracking case numbers to dealers and buy exclusively from those guys or submit myself. I've submitted through friends (large & small submitters) and have been treated the same grade-wise. The only thing I will say that is a fact...
When I get a bunch of PSA 9 HOF'ers on an invoice, my commons get jobbed. The "lock 10's" get 9's. When my invoices are generally commons I turn quite a few 10's. The key for 77's, I think, is to get them with tight stock and well-cut. You just don't get that in wax. Generally vending and rack cases yield tighter registered cards with thicker gloss as well. As always when breaking a rack case, try to get the boxes in the middle (nice and flat cards) This may seem obvious, however it is the stock that kills you on these. I have started uploading photos to my set. ATLANTA went up this week and I will add teams each week if you care to browse. There is nothing I dig more than a colorful, focused, sharp '77 topps baseball card. When the set is finally done, I'm aiming for 75% or more to be from my own submissions...I'm about there now, but I NEED HELP!!!

dgf

pc · March 5, 2004 12:41PM

when a pair appears i place $25 on the hardways and split the hi/lo
then i press all the way.my biggest thrill was hitting 3 12s in a row.
i didnt press that all the way but got back $13,400 area.
oh as to opening packs i dont remember anything worth more
than a couple thousand.

brianwintersfan · March 5, 2004 2:54PM

I just sat down yesterday and ripped 13 packs of 1975/76 Topps basketball.
No big hits but some decent cards that will be getting sent in for grading.
It was a quick $400.00 but it was still fun to open!

magellan · March 5, 2004 11:08PM

Man, you make me want to start ripping packs, I'm sitting on quite a few from '72 FB on up to late 80's stuff from my eBay selling a couple years ago. I've been pretty resistant to temptation so far. I'm looking to complete both the '69 (7's) and '77 set (8's) so if anyone (Ray, dgf) has any dupes they want to sell , let me know. magellun@earthlink.net

Dave

Opened a 77'T Baseball wax pack

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