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Surface Wrinkle Question???

ChicagoGlenChicagoGlen Posts: 371 ✭
in PSA Set Registry Forum
I bought some raw 1954 cards from an established dealer under the listing of NM or better. I purchased 8 of these cards. Three of these are great. Two have a 1/8 inch little wrinkle, one is on the back of a card, the other is on the front. I could only see these by turning the cards in bright light. My question is will PSA nail me on these? Also, another card has what looks like line indentions across the surface. Again only see when tilting the card. Like if you took your nail and ran it accross the face for a half an inch. The other two are really ruff cut. How bad does PSA hammer you on the ruff cuts. I know this was very common for the 1954 issue. These are all very nice color, focus, and corners. Put I notce non of my other 7's and 8's have these problems.

What do you think these would grade and would you ask for a refund.

Thanks,

Glen

Comments

  • RayBShotzRayBShotz Posts: 1,088
    Glen - I cant speak for the wrinkles but on rough edges, the 54' issue will likely hold it's grade if its a solid 8 or a solid 7 aside from the rough cut. If it's a tweener anyway expect PSA to bump you down.
    The wrinkles would worry me though.
    RayB69Topps
    Never met a Vintage card I didn't like!
  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭
    Glen:

    With surface wrinkles, there is no way that you can get above a PSA 5. If you purchased them as NM or better, I would ask for a refund.
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • CWCW Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭
    Mr. Schmidt is right (as usual). I have a T206 card that upon first
    glance looks like at least EX-MT or PSA 6. Because of a little 1/8 in.
    wrinkle on the front it sits in a PSA 3 holder.
  • GlynparsonGlynparson Posts: 182
    depeding on the day and the length of the wrinkle your cards would come back any where from a 3 to a 6 the rough cuts should not bother you and the dents can go either way sometimes theyll nail you sometimes they wont be as harsh. i would probably just eat the couple with wrinkles or run them myself, noting appear nmmt or nm whatever you feel with small wrinkles, since the others should make up for it.image
    MY CURRENT EBAY AUCTIONS
  • nearmintnearmint Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭
    I've gotten a 6 with a tiny hairline crease on the back of the card, but never higher than a 5 with a similar crease on the front. This seems harsh, since such creases are much harder to see than a banged corner. The graders are very consistent with applying this standard, though.

    Mike
    Nearmint's Vintage Football Cards
    Vintage Football Card Gallery
  • GoSoxBoSoxGoSoxBoSox Posts: 1,103
    I certainly ask for a refund for the two cards. If the dealer is established as you said you'll have no problem. He likely just missed these wrinkles since they were tough to see as you mentioned.
    There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"
  • highendhighend Posts: 534 ✭
    i agree with all of the above, a surface wrinkle will wreak havoc on your grade. i've always liked PSA for their tolerance on the rough cuts. on my last submission i sent in some blazing '72's , three had rough cuts, but they were relatively low pop and was hoping for 8's.
    two of three got 9's. still rough cuts, but the cards overall appeal was credited.

  • ChicagoGlenChicagoGlen Posts: 371 ✭
    I have decided to take this on as a learning program. I am submitting all 8 of these cards. I know this is probably a finiancial mistake but oh well. I even said screw it and sent them in under the February Collecters Club Special (5 Day, $10 a card). With a total investmint including Raw cards, shipping and grading fee's of $197, it will be a tough pill to swallow. I have written down the grades that i think they will receive. I am taking into account the ruff cuts, surface wrinkles, and surface marks "indentations". The best part of this process is I think I will learn the range of grading skills needed to buy Raw 50's cards "In Person" at future shows. I was tough on my grading knowing that PSA will do the same.

    I will post my grades and the actual grades received as soon as they are posted from PSA.

    Lets hope I am accurate, even if I was way off I will post what I have documented and take the embarassment if I was way off. I am in the grading game for good! Let this be a learning experience for me to help me down the line.

    Thanks,

    Glen
  • FuzzFuzz Posts: 903
    They are a killer on surface wrinkles, good luck.
    It is about having the cards and leanring so the $ were well spent.
    Financially, you would be ahead on '26 Black' or Powerball tickets than trying to et a wrinkle by those guys. Overall, I think you will be fine at that $ level.
    May your cards draw a tolerant grader.
    Fuzz
    Wanted: Bell Brands FB and BB, Chiefs regionals especially those ugly milk cards, Coke caps, Topps and Fleer inserts and test issues from the 60's. 1981 FB Rack pack w/ Jan Stenerud on top.
  • ChicagoGlenChicagoGlen Posts: 371 ✭
    Received these grades and I am very surprised. Pretty excited. FOund out I was way to hard on these cards. Below are the just posted grades from PSA and Below that the grades I gave them. Two eights!!!!!!! I am happy.

    1 30675787 1954 TOPPS 211 DON HOAK N/A 6 My Grade 4 Small wrinkle-Missed it???
    2 30675788 1954 TOPPS 212 MICKEY MICELOTTA N/A 8 My Grade 8
    3 30675789 1954 TOPPS 218 FRED MARSH N/A 5 My Grade 5 Small wrinkle-They cought it!
    4 30675790 1954 TOPPS 219 CHARLIE KRESS N/A 7 My Grade 6
    5 30675791 1954 TOPPS 220 RUBEN GOMEZ N/A 7 My Grade 5
    6 30675792 1954 TOPPS 223 JOE HAYNES N/A 8 My Grade 7
    7 30675793 1954 TOPPS 224 DICK WEIK N/A 6 My Grade 5 Slightly OC
    8 30675794 1954 TOPPS 232 LOU LIMMER N/A 7 My Grade 5 Really Ruff cut one side

    Overall very pleased, wish the 6's were 7's but now I 'm really pushing it!

    Glen

  • joedeljoedel Posts: 91
    Glen,

    The way you graded your own cards before submitting them, I am glad you don't work for PSA.
    image


    I do find it amazing how you realized the Mickey Micelotta would grade PSA 8 (and it did), and why the dealer did not submit the card himself, especailly being it was a 1950's card.

    Great job on the "raw" work.
  • ChicagoGlenChicagoGlen Posts: 371 ✭
    It was nice to be right on two of the cards. I guess I am my own "grader of death." I believe I did all right. Its better to be wrong and get better grades than expected than the reverse. By performing this little test I learned what to look for in raw 50's material and a better idea on what PSA judges.

    Great experience,

    Thanks,

    Glen
  • CWCW Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭
    You did great!

    BTW, which card had the line indentations
    across the surface?
  • ChicagoGlenChicagoGlen Posts: 371 ✭
    It was the Ruben Gomez

    5 30675791 1954 TOPPS 220 RUBEN GOMEZ N/A 7 My Grade 5

    I figured they would hammer this card. Again it was only visible in bright light tilting the card. They were not creases they were little indentions.

    Do you think they missed it or is this the standard? The card looked of 7-8 quality.

    Thanks,

    Glen
  • CWCW Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭


    << <i>It was the Ruben Gomez

    5 30675791 1954 TOPPS 220 RUBEN GOMEZ N/A 7 My Grade 5

    I figured they would hammer this card. Again it was only visible in bright light tilting the card. They were not creases they were little indentions.

    Do you think they missed it or is this the standard? The card looked of 7-8 quality.

    Thanks,

    Glen >>



    I'm not sure what the exact standard is for that type of defect, and
    of course it would depend on the severity. I think many times the
    objective opinion of the grader takes into account "overall eye appeal".
    Seems like those flaws were so small that the eye appeal wasn't affected.
    Just a guess....
  • ChicagoGlenChicagoGlen Posts: 371 ✭
    When I get home this weekend I will try to post a link of these cards. They look very nice. I don't know if the marks will show up but I will do the best I can.
  • VintageVikesVintageVikes Posts: 63
    I submitted some vintage fb cards and missed seeing one card with a wrinkle and rolled the dice on two others with very minor wrinkle in hopes it would slip through and because I didn't have one like it already graded. Those 3 cards came back PSA 5's. Lesson learned.
    Wanted:
    1961 Topps FB PSA 8
    1970 Topps FB PSA 9
  • joedeljoedel Posts: 91
    Chicago Glen,

    Did your cards with "minor wrinkles" have those which run along the edges, especially the bottom edge? Many ripples along the edges are considered less of a problem than those wrinkles that travel across the card. These edge ripples are usually caused by pressure during the cutting process when the card was manufactured. During the cutting process, many sheets of cards were usually stacked together, then cut, leaving these pressure ripples along the edges. This cutting method is also the main culprit for off-center and rough cut cards.

    Interestingly, many veteran collectors know how to get out these minor surface wrinkles, including those that run across cards.
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