JTCards & PSA 10's...

downgoesfrazier · January 30, 2004 11:51AM

Just wanted to let you guys & gals know that I purchased a nice sampling across the years of Joe's recent 10's. I expected the worst and hoped for the best as I do with any PSA 10 that I do not actually handle. As many of you know who collect 70's-80's cards, Joe gets far more than his share of 10's. Some observations from this large lot I purchased...

Perfectly graded. Sure there were some cards that got a benefit of the doubt, but NOT ONE card was not worthy. This guy is selling some of the absolute BEST cards around right now and if you snooze--you'll lose. Just quality cards from a quality guy. This "plug" is un-solicited. As arguably the fussiest collector--to a fault--on these boards, I just wanted you guys to know the cards are "all there". Don't be shy if he's got something you need.

dgf

riccaboni · January 31, 2004 1:12AM

DGF,

I would like to echo your sentiments. I picked up a couple of 8s, a few 9s from him and they are all sharp and deserving. His 8's and 9's are all well centered and are very high end. Very recommended.

-Ian

JasP24 · January 31, 2004 2:29AM

I'm still waiting for my PSA 10's that I purchased from him on 12 Jan. via Paypal. Last I heard they were "returned" to him because they labelled the package wrong. Still havent received anything. Never had any problems in the past with JTCards. Maybe they are doing TOO much business...

JasP24

ctsoxfan · January 31, 2004 5:38AM

<< <i>Sure there were some cards that got a benefit of the doubt, >>

The difference between a 9 and a 10 is a benefit of the doubt that I wish us smaller volume submitters got more often. Unfortunately, that statement leaves the same reservations in the minds of a lot of collectors about special treatment given to people like jtcards and dsl. Has this ever been addressed by Joe Orlando or someone from PSA?

YAYAIMHIPIMHIP · January 31, 2004 7:53AM

Add another vote of confidence with JTcards.Purchased many times in the past.He doesn't just get strong grades in PSA.I just won a Griffey jr 89 Donruss BGS 9.5 w/subs 10/9.5/9.5/9.5 Subgrades are everything in determining how much a BGS 9.5 will go for.If it's not a 9.5 or better across the board then it's just another BGS 9.5.
Regarding Special treatment.Yeah,everyone should have to same chance of a grade as anyone else.Unfortunately money talks.Gotta take care of people spending high dollar to keep the high dollar coming back.I've experieced that the more cards I send in the higher the percentages of Gem Mint cards returned.Lots under 100 cards I got 10% 9.5s over 100 I got 33%.Perhaps I just sent in better cards?

downgoesfrazier · January 31, 2004 11:53AM

ctsoxfan,
I understand your frustration but consider this...

I recently sent the best of a really nice case of 77's to PSA. Every card was equal to or better than the cards Joe just got 10's on and only a couple of 10's on the 31 card invoice (26 9's). HOWEVER, while I was robbed on that invoice--only way to say it--I have sent other invoices with much softer cards and gotten slews of 10's. It isn't who submits the cards but rather who GRADES the cards. If I had an issue with PSA it would be the tremendous differences between how each grader interperets and applies their published standards. My point on this post was to point out that Joe Tuttle got great grades because he sent FANTASTIC cards to PSA and got a grader that appreciated his meticulous process.

dgf

Lothar52 · January 31, 2004 7:58PM

who is this??

loth

aro13 · February 1, 2004 4:38AM

downgoesfrazier - I always like bidding on JTCards auctions and have won a few, all of the cards, in my opinion, have been high end for the grade.
I also agree with your point about who is grading the cards as the key in determining the grade not who submits them.

jrinck · February 1, 2004 4:50AM

My only experience with JTCARDS was a neutral one (that's the feedback I left him). The card was nice and all that, but I paid for insurance and he didn't insure the package. I asked him about it but he never got back to me. He's lucky, if that ever happens to me again I'm leaving a NEGATIVE. But he's unlucky in that I will never bid on another auction of his.

ndleo · February 1, 2004 6:11AM

I feel bad for him because the winner of the same BGS 9.5 1989 Score Barry Sanders never pays and he has to keep relisting it until it sells for over $310.

Stump · February 1, 2004 6:19AM

I will also echo the fact that Joe has high end cards. I have purchased plenty from him the last two years and the service and product have been great.

Jrinck

Joe may be self insured on his packages. I know if I sold as many as he did I would insure within the house. Example(if they lose your package he would pay for it out of his pocket). I have a buddy in Lansing who does this with another business. He has had to pay for some losses but has made money by self insuring. Just a thought.

Dave

jrinck · February 1, 2004 6:25AM

<< <i>I will also echo the fact that Joe has high end cards. I have purchased plenty from him the last two years and the service and product have been great.

Jrinck

Joe may be self insured on his packages. I know if I sold as many as he did I would insure within the house. Example(if they lose your package he would pay for it out of his pocket). I have a buddy in Lansing who does this with another business. He has had to pay for some losses but has made money by self insuring. Just a thought.

Dave >>

He didn't say anything about self-insurance in the auction listing. If he would have I wouldn't have bid. If you are going to charge USPS pricing for insurance, then you should insure the package with the USPS. If you are going to self insure, then come up with your own pricing and inform potential bidders. The concept of self-insurance is riddled with the potential for fraud. At least with the USPS you know you'll get your money eventually. What assurances are there with "JTCARDS Insurance"?

ctsoxfan · February 1, 2004 6:47AM

DGF, I agree with your statement regarding graders interpreting standards a bit differently, and I unfortunately don't think this is easily fixed, especially when the call between a 9 or a 10 is often a question of "judgement" and "eye-appeal". I do think PSA gets it right most of the time, but it is frustrating to submit beautiful, fresh, perfect cards sometimes, and get back 9's, while the 10's you get from dealers like jt and dsl couldn't compare. Whatever is causing this is a shame, and if any type of preferential treatment could be proven to the mass of PSA collectors, what would then happen to the value of our cards?

This whole "self-insurance" scam was discussed in another thread as well. Jrinck is 100% correct. Self-insuring is basically the same as just doing regular business (if the customer doesn't get his product, or it's damaged...you replace it). Charging for this, but not involving a neutral third party in the transaction for your additional protection(which is what you are paying for) is basically stealing from your customers. I occasionally buy from jt, but the next time I do, I will insist on USPS insurance if I am required to pay for insurance. If he declines, that's my last purchase from him as well.

Basilone · February 1, 2004 6:57AM

<< <i>He didn't say anything about self-insurance in the auction listing. If he would have I wouldn't have bid. If you are going to charge USPS pricing for insurance, then you should insure the package with the USPS. If you are going to self insure, then come up with your own pricing and inform potential bidders. The concept of self-insurance is riddled with the potential for fraud. At least with the USPS you know you'll get your money eventually. What assurances are there with "JTCARDS Insurance"? >>

What self-insurance doesnt offer the bidder is a impartial 3rd party to get your money back.

I agree with JRinck.

Davalillo · February 1, 2004 7:06AM

For an ebay guy, I like him. He will put cards away and hold them for me--wish he would go off ebay and deal direct.

Dav

downgoesfrazier · February 1, 2004 12:19PM

ctsox,
I feel your pain and agree that 9's outdistance 10's a great deal of the time, but there are many volume submitters who get back gorgeous cards in 9 holders as well. An example would be an Al Oliver I won from JT on eBay. The card is perfect. A 10 in all aspects--in fact stronger than some of the nice 10's I bought from him, but 10's are a real crap-shoot.

dgf

Glynparson · February 1, 2004 10:13PM

My 1st comment is Joe nor any of the other large submitters get the benefit of the doubt. they just submit more cards then any of us and that is why they have so many 10s. i used to work for a company that submitted approximately 1000 cards a week and i did no better submitting through them then i did submitting cards on my own there would be shipments that we loved and wished all would be graded like that there were shipments that we were po'd and wanted to send the whole thing back in. Second on the insurance he may be using a third party insurer this is different then self insurance secondly if one gets the cards or he offers a refund if there is a problem i do not see the big deal its like dealing with almost any mail order company they charge very high shipping handling/ insurance rates and the item comes with much less shipping joe would make good on a deal gone bad so i do not see the big deal but that is just my opinion i guess i trust someone who has been around the business for a long time and has way to much to lose in reputation for not making good on a deal gone wrong.

Basilone · February 1, 2004 11:09PM

<< <i>. Second on the insurance he may be using a third party insurer this is different then self insurance secondly if one gets the cards or he offers a refund if there is a problem i do not see the big deal its like dealing with almost any mail order company they charge very high shipping handling/ insurance rates and the item comes with much less shipping joe would make good on a deal gone bad so i do not see the big deal but that is just my opinion i guess i trust someone who has been around the business for a long time and has way to much to lose in reputation for not making good on a deal gone wrong >>

$2.00 "insurance" profit per auction...10-20k auctions a year...equals $20-$40k per year tax free.

RobE · February 1, 2004 11:12PM

I have to say what little experince I had with Mr.Tuttle was sort of disapointing, in regards to the attitude received, or should I say the vibe caught from the whole thing.However,I'm 100% sure that if anything goes wrong he will make good for it.

I won almost 20 cards from him a few months back.A person on this thread informed me that he doesn't insure through USPS.I questioned it,got the explaination and was fine with it.Eventually, I got the cards minus a couple and proceded to email him every couple days to let him know since he didn't reply right away.Called his number on the invoice first but it was a fax (I think).So now we get in touch,he mails the 2 remaining cards that took about 10 days after the fact to get here.After about 8 days of I asked in case he forgot since he's such a huge dealer and to let him know that I understood if he did.Then they show up, so I emailed to thank him, post his feedback because he made good for it and I was happy.He never posted feedback for me and as a customer which feels like he doesn't want my business.I emailed and questioned it,we even spoke once through IMs and he told me to email the auction #s which I did but he never posted anything.

As for the quality of his cards,I don't blame him for any of that.About 50% of the 9s would have been 8s If I sent them in as I have a ton of 8s that look a hell of a lot better.The good 9s were smokin examples that I was really happy with,however.

In the set I deal with, recently speaking over the phone with a few collectors I always made mention to the quality of examples from certain dealers, whom in response some have made note that these dealers I swear by had sent them examples similar the to my 50/good 50/not so good lot with JT.

Mind you,I don't want to slight JT,or anybodies opinion in any way, but wanted to just to speak of the experience as it went down.

Edited for clarification.

downgoesfrazier · February 1, 2004 11:16PM

Glyn,
Yes, they do. But so do I sometimes. That was my point. It's the GRADER not the SUBMITTER in my opinion.

<<...we were po'd and wanted to send the whole thing back in.>>

That's exactly how I felt with #90187791 (98107). The submission looks okay on paper until you see the staggering quality of the cards. Two of the ('77) 8's were legit--didn't expect more than that--but at least half of those 9's are not ordinary 10's...but blazing ones. On top of that their were some mislabeled "mechanical errors" that seem to be increasing in frequency.

Fabfrank · February 2, 2004 2:02AM

Dav- Give Joe a call. I've done a few off-line transactions with him. He prefers to move bulk purchases in this manner and once he knows what you want he'll contact you. But you have to make the first call (Sounds like an APEX Tech commercial, doesn't it)

pc · February 2, 2004 5:41AM

he gets some pretty sweet grades on 8s
here's one that must have been downgraded from an 11.
PSA 11 BUT NQ

Davalillo · February 2, 2004 5:51AM

Fabfrank,

Thanks--I will.

Dav

ctsoxfan · February 2, 2004 6:40AM

On that above scan in pc's post, how does that card not have the dreaded OC qualifier? Or, am I missing something?

JTCards &amp; PSA 10's...

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JTCards & PSA 10's...