Anyone else have problems with this buyer on Ebay?

thearms

KLCOINS ????

They bought a $10 Gold Indian off of me and now they are sending it back saying it is "counterfeit"....I'm almost positive it is not "counterfeit".

Anyone else have bad experiences with these people???

relayer

almost?

RYK

No, but being "almost positive it is not counterfeit" does not put you the seller in a particularly positive light.

wingedliberty

who is it certified by?

thearms

Ok...I'm positive it is not counterfeit

relayer

OK, what convinced you it's not a counterfeit?

Gandyjai

Never delt with them,......But I have a suggestion for you:
Put a magnet (the stronger the better) to the coin and see if there is any slight magnetic
attraction.....A real gold coin won't have any.
Sometimes a fake one will.

Gandyjai

wingedliberty

The only way you will convince the buyer is to have it third party certified by PCGS, NGC, or ANACS. If it comes out authentic, then he should pay the grading fee. That is fair in my mind.

RYK

I guess there is a corollary to the rule about never buying raw gold on ebay:

Never sell raw gold on ebay, either.

tlhoy

His feedback is "Private" BEWARE!!!
You might have sent him a real gold coin & he'll send back a counterfeit!
Make sure he sends back the correct coin.
Glenn

thearms

If the buyer was so sure it was counterfeit..then why wouldn't they tell me what made it counterfeit? I am refunding there money, but what I find upsetting is that I asked them to please tell me how they knew it was counterfeit and I got no reply.

thearms

tlhoy ... I agree .... that is what I'm afraid of....

sinin1

You would recognize if it was the same coin you sent wouldn't you?


Did you do a "Search" - by bidder to see what they have bought in the last 30 days? - could show you what type of buyer you are dealing with (sophisticated quality or bunch of junk) - and would also tell you who he bought from -> yiou could "ask seller a question" on the closed sale to see how the transaction has gone with them so far (especially if they bought gold)


welcome to the boards

Russ

<< <i>OK, what convinced you it's not a counterfeit? >>



This statement:



<< <i>being "almost positive it is not counterfeit" does not put you the seller in a particularly positive light. >>





Russ, NCNE

cacheman

I asked about a possible counterfeit gold one dollar piece this guy sent back to my friend last week. I find it very interesting that this guy repeatedly buys raw gold on ebay, receives it, determines it is "counterfeit", and then wants his money back. thearms, make sure it is the same coin when you get it back. My friend in Sweden is waiting for the return of his too. I don't know, I may be paranoid but something doesn't add up here and the hidden feedback is BS too...ebay shouldn't even allow that.

Let us know when you get the coin back.

tlhoy

Do NOT refund his money until you get the coin back & can positively identify it!
Save all your pictures (including your eBay listing) of the coin for proof.
Before you sell any expensive coin on eBay you should take extra picture's of the coin showing any identifying marks.
Good luck,
Glenn

sinin1

I just checked the bid history of KLCOINS


wow - bid on 78 items in last month - won 75
pretty much all gold - $30-40,000 purchased last month?

over half their purchase already PCGS, NGC, ANACS


I doubt if it was a - coin not good enough so don't want it- deal, not sure

Also do not know your experience with gold (versus theirs) -

wingedliberty

I agree with RYK: Raw coins and Ebay don't mix.

Barry

Odd that his feeback is private, yet he has no negs.

thearms

Isn't it funny how I have to prove to you guys why I know it is not counterfeit...but I guess it is ok for the buyer to just tell me it is counterfeit with no explanation? I didn't post this thread to have beaten up because I'm a "newbie"....I posted this thread because I'm afraid of getting taken advantage of...I have been selling on Ebay for 2 years now and have had nothing but positive feedback.

RYK

Sorry...did not want to appear to beat you up over the authenticity. Your initial statement did not inspire much confidence. I agree with the others to carefully check the returned coin and make sure it is the same as the one you sent. Do not refund the buyer's money until you do so. Perhaps the buyer decided that he did not like/want the coin when he received it and used the "counterfeit" excuse to have a seemingly legitimate reason to return it to you without question. Please let us know how it turns out. A link to the auction would also be helpful.

Good Luck,

Robert

Russ

thearms,

Lighten up, we're just funnin' ya.

Russ, NCNE

Sequitur

I have to prove to you guys why I know it is not counterfeit...

It was a legitimate question, especially when you say you merely were "almost positive" it wasn't fools gold. That raised my eyebrows. It certainly left the impression that in your mind (and most certainly in ours) there is a chance, no matter how small, this buyer is right.

I see nothing wrong with the inquiry.

I didn't post this thread to have beaten up because I'm a "newbie"....

Relax. No one is beating you up -- you're getting good information and advice, information that may save you hundreds or thousands of dollars on this transaction. Skepticism = good.

tlhoy

After looking at his bidding & the feedback he has left for others I feel a little better about him. Looks like he knows his gold.
WOW, I wish I could spend that kind of money!
Glenn

sinin1

There are some die struck copys that are so good, few people can recognize them as fakes


There was someone who signed their art (coin dies) with an Omega sign - people who see hundreds of these recognize certain dies and die pairings - usually the die struck copies all have the same reverse which is just a little different than the actual one that year

We are not trying to beat you up, just point out some things you may not be aware of


You would not be the first (or the last) to send a beautiful MS63/64 gold coin in to have it returned in a bodybag as die struck copy

thearms

Here is the link to the auction...

auction link

I used the word "almost" because I am not a dealer/collector. I'm just selling off my Dad's coins and paper money. My Dad bought all his stuff from reputable dealers...but I know that is not enough to say it wouldn't be counterfeit.

Sequitur

Hmm . . .

itsnotjustme

I went a step further and looked at the feedback left by others whom he had bought from. (Although his feedback is private, the feedback left by sellers whom he bought from is readily attainable) Looks like he knows his gold and buys both raw and certified.

If I were in your shoes I'd be figuring out who sold me that coin.

Russ

Sorry, but that coin looks a little funky even to my inexperienced eye.

Russ, NCNE

thearms

itsnotjustme:

I don't think we could find the person who sold my Dad this coin...it has been in the safe for at least 50 years.

Sequitur

KL:

Fake.

cacheman

It does have the appearance of being cast, doesn't it?

relayer

Only coinguy1 can authenticate and grade from a photo, but there is a lot of fake gold coins out there and I'd be leary of that one.

Russ

<< <i>It does have the appearance of being cast, doesn't it? >>



Yep, the surfaces look rough and bubbly.

Russ, NCNE

tlhoy

Looks like a cast copy to me.
Glenn

itsnotjustme

thearms--I hadn't read that part yet when I posted. All the less certainty to its origin. Many people have been fooled. I bought raw gold once and lost--it was authentic, but cleaned.

I'd advise first make sure the same item comes back, then take it to a local dealer or two (or submit to PCGS for $30) to verify authenticity. If authentic, you'll get back more than the grading fee in higher sale price. If not, at least you'll know someone ripped your dad off (perhaps unknowingly) years back.

Good luck!

thearms

Well, I guess a few more eyes have affirmed it.

Not sure how I'm going to break the news to my dad...oh well....worst things can happen!

Thank you all for your time and advice.

I'm glad that is the only Gold coin my Dad has ...

Sequitur

Everything about the coin is wrong, from the stars to the feathers to the face to the porosity.
I take a risk in being unequivocal, and I am not infallible, but I am saying firmly, it's counterfeit.
Here's a closeup of a real 1911:

RYK

I am fairly confident it is a fake, as well.

LucyBop

funny how all you cats say this coin is fake, yet the buyer who supposedly knows his gold and buys plenty, couldn't make the same judgement....

Gandyjai

My Dad also bought from a very reputable dealer in the 70's.
I sent his to PCGS and had 14 gold coins come back fake!!!!
ALL kinds!.....$1, $2 1/2, $3, $5, $10 and one Saint $20.
I don't know gold that well. Some one told me about the "magnet test"...
They were all slightly attracted to the magnet. Wish I had known that BEFORE
I sent them to PCGS! 'Would have saved over $420 in grading fees!

Not tryin to bust your chops,....just tryin' to offer helpful advice.

Good Luck,
Gandyjai

sinin1

Lucy you surely know that pictures are definitely different than coin in hand

A photo that looks like it probably is real, could actually be an easily detectible fake in your hand -


wrong color - seam on rim - wrong weight - magnetic -
also cast copies are easier to tell under loupe than most sellers picture give a glimpse of

Stork

On one of my more 'educational' experiences as a buyer, I too fell for a piece of raw gold. When it arrived I had a counterfeit.

It would be nice if your guy would email you the specifics of why he thinks it's a fake. I told my seller about the wrong weight, abnormal reeding, wrong color metal peeking through on the reeding...etc, and the nitwit still insisted on a third party opinion.

One of the kind forum member/dealers (actually a former forum member...it was Jadecoins) was extremely helpul, examined the coin, wrote a nice letter etc. but eventually the guy went NARU and I had to go the paypal route for attempting to get some money back.

I would still email the guy for his reasons and maybe not end up wasting time on a TPG opinion. Or maybe you could ask for an unbiased, informed opinion from someone like Jadecoins did for me. Someone on the boards may be able to help you.

ksteelheader

My advice to thearms would be, seeing where you live, to drive down to Lancaster to Steinmetz, who is a PCGS dealer and let them examine the coin.

wingedliberty

There is no question in my mind that the coin is counterfeit, and its not even a quality copy.
,but if you don't believe us, submit it to ANACS for authenticity only. Its the least expensive of the three reputable services.
Please don't let this discourage you from collecting. , although I am not sure that your goal is collecting or rather pure liquidation of your dad's coins. Occasionally there are disapointments in the hobby, but you must treat it as a learning experience.
I am so sure that the coin is counterfeit that I will pay you $10 toward your authenticity fee if it comes back genuine., but you must use either PCGS, NGC, or ANACS.