Gold breaks $400!!!

Wondo

Isn't it amazing - up, up, up!!!

Please read this with loads of sarcasm.

dollardude

BTW, I will stick with my original prediction back in December 2003 that gold will close at $410/ounce by the end of 2004. Stay out of this CRAP unless you want to lose your BUTT!

1jester

I say the best way to get rich is follow Dollardude's example and find a nice job working for the government, so you can be first in line when inflation hits the roof. At least you'll get your money before the retiree's and other unconnected people, so inflation will be of no concern to you....

atomic

<< <i>

BTW, I will stick with my original prediction back in December 2003 that gold will close at $410/ounce by the end of 2004. Stay out of this CRAP unless you want to lose your BUTT! >>



Gold needs to fall below $280 for me to lose money. Do you think it will?

Atomic

atomic

So... where'd all the gold bears go?

Deadhorse

DDude works for the Government?

That explains alot right there.

I've got all the gold I want to hold for now and I'll stand by my prediction of gold at $525 or more by the end of 2004. It would have to drop below $330 for me to be hurt.

Silver is where the return will be greater and I feel very good about where things are at right now. In fact I expect silver to drop as low as $5.85 by mid February.

After that, we will be in for a wild ride and it will all be uphill for the next few years. Bank on it, literally.

Skipper53

I'm not suggesting a conspiracy but,
gold prices seem to be locked into Howard Dean's poll numbers.

.

Bear

Im a bear, but I dont know nothing about any gold.

atomic

<< <i>Im a bear, but I dont know nothing about any gold. >>



The call out went to gold bears. Judging by your icon, you appear to be a baloon bear. But your perspective is apppreciated nonetheless.

Atomic

atomic

<< <i>I'm not suggesting a conspiracy but,
gold prices seem to be locked into Howard Dean's poll numbers.

. >>



Skipper53,

Wanna get rich? Let's create a hedge fund based on the derivative of the ratio of Dean's to Kerry's poll numbers divided by the number of monthly trips Cheney takes to the hospital for heart tests.

Atomic

Stooge

I was at my local coin shop about a week ago and this guy was in there and he stated that Gold would be at $550.00 by the end of the year. I laughed and said "What have you been smoking"!

Gold will be about $375.00 at years end.

Later,
Paul B. Gunsallus

dollardude

<< I say the best way to get rich is follow Dollardude's example and find a nice job working for the government, so you can be first in line when inflation hits the roof. At least you'll get your money before the retiree's and other unconnected people, so inflation will be of no concern to you.... >>

I do not work directly for the government. I am an Army contractor full-time, and a real-estate investor/landlord part-time.

Yes, our country has a debt problem. No, precious metals are not the answer. Yes, there will be some inflation. Yes, there will be rises in interest rates worldwide. Yes, the dollar is weak against other currencies due to the U.S. debt problem.

As long as the Republicans are in power, our government will continue to operate at a deficit. We need to go back to when Clinton and the Democrats were in power, when we had a budget surplus. Bush sucks so bad that he will get his butt beat really bad in this election. Then, we can begin to attack the deficit the Republicans created.

atomic

<< <i>I was at my local coin shop about a week ago and this guy was in there and he stated that Gold would be at $550.00 by the end of the year. I laughed and said "What have you been smoking"!

Gold will be about $375.00 at years end.

Later,
Paul B. Gunsallus >>



What is the basis for this prediction?

Atomic

RYK

We need to go back to when Clinton and the Democrats were in power, when we had a budget surplus.

roadrunner

Dollardude and Stooge,

Both of you can make an easy $100,000 if you bet Jim Sinclair where gold will end up by the end of the year. I know Mr. Sinclair will take both of your bets no ifs and or buts. And you guys can each pocket an easy $100K for being so smart. You won't even have to work next year! Good deal.

roadrunner

atomic

<< <i>We need to go back to when Clinton and the Democrats were in power, when we had a budget surplus.

>>



Make that "bubble surplus."

Atomic

trozau

I like gold (up or down or up)

dollardude

RR, wealth is built slowly over time. Precious metals are a get-rich quick scheme, just like Carleton Sheet's "No Down Payment" real estate idea, 90% of network marketing ideas, stuffing envelopes at home ideas, etc. People like this get rich off of suckers who THINK they can get rich quick by selling them get-rich-quick schemes. For example, Carleton Sheets makes money off of selling his dumba$$ "educational" materials, NOT off of real estate. Same thing with precious metals. People will convince you the sky is falling just to sell you precious metals. Suckers who fall for this scam will do nothing but make the con artists rich. The Bible says that people who try to get rich quick will not go unpunished, and I believe this with all of my heart. Here's a shocking statistic that supports this position. 2 out of 3 people who win the lottery are BANKRUPT within 10 years.

Deadhorse

<< <i> The Bible says that people who try to get rich quick will not go unpunished, and I believe this with all of my heart. >>



Holy craziness, WOW! All those people who bought Microsoft and Dell stocks are going to Hell!!!

I'll have to tell my brother that when he took a multi six-figure bath on Cisco a few years back he was probably earning his ticket to eternal salvation.

DDude, somehow this statement reminds me of Howard Dean's explosive meltdown, he's toast now. Your position on investments just put you in the same toaster. DING! I think you're done now. I don't know whether to go for a knife and some butter or just stick a fork in you.

You've just exposed yourself as a nutjob, thanks, I think. I'll be sure to take your posts alot less seriously from now on.

WOW, I'm stunned by this statement, I really am, but fortunately not speechless. I used to just think you were anti precious metals, now I'm not sure what to think...........................<Twilight Zone theme song running in the back of my mind>

roadrunner

Dollardude, your statement indicates that are all investors are going to hell, because 99% of them are looking to get rich quick....or get their quicker than they should. How about all the people that buy huge houses & SUV's on a shoestring budget just to keep up with the Jones'? They're making 30% on their houses in Calif, are they all going to hell? All those who bought NASDAQ tech stocks from 1997-2000 are they are all on the glory bus to hell? Where do you define making money too quickly, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, etc.? I would submit that anything over 15% is certainly an excessive return and anyone making such an amount should buy a bus ticket. If you are making 30-50% on any of your Morgans you might want to consider a seat also, that's almost an obscene rate of return that is taking advantage of someone out there in the world. To all those who make more than 15% returns on their investments I suggest you turn that excess into your local charities or help finance the national debt.

And by the way, gold or PM's in general are no get rich quick scheme.
In fact it is just the opposite. This is one of the only ways to retain the money we may have earned over the past 20 years (in stocks and bonds and real estate) while those markets faulter. The only other choice to invest your dollars is under your mattress. PM's will always have a role to safeguard your wealth (or lack of it) during uncertain times. It has been that way for thousands of years and will continue to be. Gold/barter was the medium of exchange in Jesus' day.

And to those who still don't believe, GOLD is CURRENCY at that moment and will continue to be while our paper currency (and others) do battle in the marketplace. Gold is the only true medium of exchange. It's why central banks own it and try to control it.

Get rich quick scheme? ...my azz.

roadrunner

roadrunner

3 out of 10 Lottery winners are bankrupt....? So? Throw in major leaguers/boxers/football players into that same pile too.

While this is not a charted stat, I would say that 90% of all people who "invest/collect" rare coins, lose money in the end. It's dealers and investors/top collectors/unknowing accumulators who make up the other 10%. Add that to your pile of stats. And to any mothers or kids who bought beannie babies during that craze, your bus ticket is all but assured. What a shame that 90% of all the Dutch that were alive during the 1600's tulip craze went to hell after their demise. Have a nice day!

roadrunner

wallstreetman

Warren Buffett deals in precious metals, do you think its just for the fun of it? I ask this question to the people who say its not a good investment. I'll take Buffetts advice($) any day!

wallstreetman

As far as the Bankruptsy Statistics, a fool and his money are soon parted! Easy come, easy go. Call Micheal Jackson names if you want, but he was the one who was smart enough to plunk down a mere $50,000,000 on the rights to the Beatles, this investment brings him $300,000,000 a year!

roadrunner

Forget Warren Buffet, he's on that same charter bus as the rest of us.


Actually, there is still debate whether Warren owns his 120 MILL ounces of silver. Personally, I say he still has it. Why the heck would he go out and essentially corner the market, then sell at a loss? No, you can be assured he still has the stuff. The Hunt Brothers got scoured for owning a lot less of it. The FEDs didn't appreciate them though and changed the rules of the game to easily defeat them. I feel much better now knowing that it's a sin to earn money too quickly.

Do I get any compensation for having lost most of my 401K two years ago....is that deductable against my
userious gains above 15%? Since I never invested in the Tech Stock mania I must get bonus points for that too! Man, these rules for salvation are like the tax code.

roadrunner

1jester

I sort of doubt (or I'd like to believe it isn't true) that DollarDude believes people will go to hell for trying to earn money quickly.

In fact, it's a strong Biblical principle to make wise investment decisions, and not squander wealth. Remember the parable of the dude who went away for awhile and gave 3 of his servants money to invest? He actually gave them gold, but the point is that one was given 10 talents, and he earned 10 more with his money. Another was given 3 (or 5? I forgot) and earned another 3. The third servant was given one talent and instead of making money, he hid it and waited for his master to return, and when the master returned, he called the servants to account, and was pleased with the first two, but scolded the third for being a lazy bum, and gave his talent to the one with the most.

I think it's a good idea to try to earn money honestly, and not squander your wealth. Another Biblical principle says that the wise man sees the traps set for him, and avoids them. I feel that's why it's a good idea to be investing in precious metals especially at the moment, for the governments have set up a system to trap the people and their money, and wise men will see this and avoid the pitfalls. By investing in precious metals.

roadrunner

Well said 1Jestor. The FED has artificially set our interest rate at 1%, thereby guaranteeing a net "negative" return on capital investment. This is nothing less than theft. The govt wants us to lend our cash (capital) out and receive less back? No way. The banks don't offer realistic rates of return for our capital, hence it some of it spills over into tangibles (gold included) where it can realize a FAIR return for the risk taken. This has happened every time the FED knocks real rates into negative territory. It's called running for shelter to protect one's assets.

Interest rates should be at 4-6% right now but the FED doesn't want that so that the asset bubbles can remain "unpopped." All well and good. But don't expect us to leave our assets in areas earning negative rates. That is unpatriotic too. Gold, silver, and coins are hereby reinstated as partriotic. And pat (triotic)...go PATS.

roadrunner

atomic

Precious metals indeed attract a lot of charlitans. Any time someone tells you that something needs to be purchased because:

1) The end is near or
2) The price can only go up or
3) The rules of the game have changed

You can be assured this person is not telling the truth. This goes for Internet stocks in the 1990s; their absurd prices were supposed to be guaranteed by the new rules of the New Economy. Anyone watching Cramer on TV or listening to Abbey Cohen during the stock market bubble in the late 1990s got treated to a lot of lame analysis. If you'd listened to them, you lost a lot of money...

Bubble Bafoons

Curiously, no one went after Cramer or Abbey Cohen. While Abbey sank quietly into obscurity, Cramer is still on TV! It makes me sick to watch him, knowing how much money he lost the decent and trusting people who watched him. Same goes for residential real estate in the US today. Think housing prices can only go up because there's no more land but there's more and more people? The Bush administration can try to encourage the whole world to come to the US in order to keep the pressure on the housing market to maintain high prices -- the real reason behind the Bush administration's immigration policies with respect to "illegal" aliens -- but at the end of the day it's low interest rates, low down payment requirements and low credit quality standards that are driving housing prices.

Gold inspires a lot of unclear thinking, as well. There's a belief among diehard gold bugs that gold is somehow a more natural form of money than paper money, ignoring the fact that if central banks had not used gold to back paper currency over the past several hundred years that gold would never have had monetary significance in the first place. The fact that nearly 25% of all the gold ever produced still sits in CB vaults is in fact why gold, paradoxically, retains a quasi monetary status, even if there is no direct backing of paper currencies printed to the gold in the vaults. The gold price is largely controlled by what the CBs do with it. They can cause the price to fall by merely talking about selling. On the flip side, as long as the CBs hang onto their gold, the gold market will always reflect in the gold price a certain degree of probability, however remote, that CBs that they will need to return to a gold standard some day, even if only temporarily, in order to end some future fiat money catastrophe as the Bundesbank did in the 1920s in order to create a new German Mark that had a value that everyone believed in after a hyperinflation there destroyed the currency. This risk is in my opinion the reason CBs have not sold all of their gold over the past 30 years since the gold standard was abolished. The gold in their vaults is insurance against a fiat currency crisis and that's how I look at gold ownership by individuals as well.

Hyperinflations are not rare. Since 1911, there have been 18, eight since 1980. The probability of a serious dollar crisis while very remote is now within the realm of possiblity. The preconditions that have resulted in periods of serious inflations in the past for other currenceis exist for the dollar today and are getting worse, not better: large external debts in dollars, limited domestic savings, low interest rates and large fiscal deficits. If and when a dollar debt crisis happens, the US government will have to choose between A) a politically unpopular increase in interest rates that will slow the economy and result in increased unemployment and maintenance of low rates that result in a depreciated dollar and increased inflation but less unemployment, quick repayment of external debts and maintance of high nominal asset prices relative to debt. Keep in mind that more than 70% of household wealth in the US is tied up in real estate, and a large number of Americans are highly leveraged with debt taken out against the equity in their homes. If there is a dollar debt crisis, what do YOU think the Bush administration will choose to do? The probability of a dollar crisis that will result in serious inflation is in the single digits, but the probability is trending up.

Atomic

1jester

Well, if we become TOO patriotic, our precious metals might just be confiscated again....

1jester

Good post, Atomic.

atomic

<< <i>Good post, Atomic.

>>



Thanks, 1jester. Just as a dollar hyperinflation is no longer only discussed among the black helicopter crowd on the Net as it was a few years ago -- Drucker indirectly, Soros more or less directly, among others recently -- gold confiscation is now outside the realm of lunacy, although it's way to early to worry about it now. If there is a crisis, the government will do what is necessary to get the system working again. During the currency crisis in 1998, Korean citizens voluntarily turned in their personal gold so that the government could reflate the economy. But the culture and history of Korea is very different than the US. US citizens, steeped in a tradition of individualism, will not turn in their gold voluntarily. What choice will the government have but to confiscate it for the greater good of all? But, as I said, it's likely too early in my view to make any decisions now based on this remote risk.

Atomic

roadrunner

There isn't enough gold around to really make a bit of difference in our economy. I see little chance of confiscation, but one should take precautions nontheless.

Atomic, I don't believe for a second that the central banks trust each other's currency and that the gold they hold (might hold) is meaningless. The price of gold each day has less and less to do with the CB's as each day passes. They don't hold enough of it anymore to control the market as they once did. This was the price they paid in the 1990's to keep gold down and currencies were inflated.
"Paper money" is an oxymoron. It is never true money and never will be.

roadrunner

Higashiyama

Regarding -- "Paper money" is an oxymoron. It is never true money and never will be.

These days, money is primarily "electronic". Gold, paper, and other tangible representations of wealth account for only a small portion of money. Paper, of course, can be as suitable a tangible representation of money as gold.

I agree with atomic's assertion that there is a small but nonetheless real possibility of a currency crisis. Awkward as the global financial system has become (due in part to the remarkable US deficit, and China's emergence as our major creditor), my guess is that the system is resilient enough to self-correct. (and the mechanism will be driven by an increase in US savings, and an increase in Chinese and Japanese consumption, all of which are favored by demographics)

Deadhorse

Atomic,

Good to see someone else pick up the gauntlet here. I've been at it so long that I'm worn weary from the precious metal haters and the constant dueling back and forth.

Most here know my position and I've put my money where my mouth and beliefs are. Over time now I've bought quite a bit of melt silver coins from numerous board members and I remain a strong buyer.

It's a running battle that the anti-precious metals people are gradually losing and it often turns into government control and conspiracy theories.

I tend to believe it's a lot more simple and demand versus supply will drive silver higher than many around here think. Amazingly, there seem to be some that don't want to see their silver coins go up in value.

Welcome to the battle.

Blackhawk

I find it amusing that the bible can be translated differently by individuals to either condemn another or prop up an arguement. Maybe we have to go back and look at the original intent of the author, much like is done in labor contract disputes. Is there anyone who really believes that the bible tells us to amass more than can be realistically used to provide ourselves with a decent life, while ignoring the plight of the needy...besides republicans I mean? Don't give me the stuff about what constitutes "wealth" or "decent standard of living", you know inside if you have more than enough. Well, back to coins. LOL

atomic

<< <i>There isn't enough gold around to really make a bit of difference in our economy. I see little chance of confiscation, but one should take precautions nontheless.

Atomic, I don't believe for a second that the central banks trust each other's currency and that the gold they hold (might hold) is meaningless. The price of gold each day has less and less to do with the CB's as each day passes. They don't hold enough of it anymore to control the market as they once did. This was the price they paid in the 1990's to keep gold down and currencies were inflated.
"Paper money" is an oxymoron. It is never true money and never will be.

roadrunner >>



roadrunner,

It's not so much a matter of trust as a matter of self interest and interdependence. To make a long story short, the US owes so much money to it trading partners that they cannot allow the US to fail as a debtor, where "failure" is not defined as default by rather repayment with heavily depreciated dollars. Thus they go along with a policy of moderate dollar depreciation taken in order to boost the US economy as long as it is understood to be a short term necessary evil to get the US economy going again. There is political pain back at home in Japan and other creditor countries but it is tolerable as long as the resulting deflation and unemployment is not long term. At some point, though, creditors start to ask what the US administration is going to do share the political pain, and that's why we heard noises last week from Japan diversifying into gold and other currencies. (I do see gold as The Forth Currency, by the way.) It was a trial baloon that said, "We're hurting here, guys, buying all these dollars to weaken the yen with no guarantee you aren't going to screw us by letting the dollar depreciate too much. Unemployment is rising here. This can't go on forever. What are you going to do to help us?" The US responded with the Fed's message to the markets that just maybe it might hike interest rates some day. The stock, bond and commodity markets responded by selling off. Then the Fed was able to say to creditors, "See? Can't do it yet. Can't raise rates. If we do, we all lose. Sorry."

Atomic

1jester

Blackhawk, you are certainly right! The Bible commands wealthy people to give to the needy; this was concurrent with the laws set forth by Moses. Jesus continued with the same theme.

atomic

<< <i>Regarding -- "Paper money" is an oxymoron. It is never true money and never will be.

These days, money is primarily "electronic". Gold, paper, and other tangible representations of wealth account for only a small portion of money. Paper, of course, can be as suitable a tangible representation of money as gold.

I agree with atomic's assertion that there is a small but nonetheless real possibility of a currency crisis. Awkward as the global financial system has become (due in part to the remarkable US deficit, and China's emergence as our major creditor), my guess is that the system is resilient enough to self-correct. (and the mechanism will be driven by an increase in US savings, and an increase in Chinese and Japanese consumption, all of which are favored by demographics) >>



Higashiyama,

My biggest concern is the unintended consequence of the emergence of what I call Everyone Else in aggregate as a source of demand outside the US. It's pur faily well here...

West must adjust to new world economic order
Jan. 28, 2004. 01:00 AM
DAVOS, Switzerland—If there was one reality that emerged out of this year's World Economic Forum, it was that the world has fundamentally changed. China, India, Brazil and Russia are emerging as economic powers that will force difficult adjustments in Canada, the United States, Europe and Japan.
Toronto Star articel link

US debts to the world were built up during a time when the world depended on the US consumer. That is less and less the case, but the US is more dependent than ever on the savings of its trading partners. I agree with you that US citizens will have to re-learn the art of saving to make up for the shortfall in foreign investment in the US. But I remain concerned that the savings disincentive of 45 year low interest rates will have to somehow change without hurting the housing market and as there is no precident for that have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too arrangement, I don't yet understand how that's going to happen. To make matters worse, the US is exporting the source of future income that might be the source of savings in the form of high paying jobs that are being created from India to Romania to Brazil. In effect, credit (a lien on future income) is being exported to foreign countries at at time when credit is already over extended.

Atomic

dollardude

<< I sort of doubt (or I'd like to believe it isn't true) that DollarDude believes people will go to hell for trying to earn money quickly.

In fact, it's a strong Biblical principle to make wise investment decisions, and not squander wealth. Remember the parable of the dude who went away for awhile and gave 3 of his servants money to invest? He actually gave them gold, but the point is that one was given 10 talents, and he earned 10 more with his money. Another was given 3 (or 5? I forgot) and earned another 3. The third servant was given one talent and instead of making money, he hid it and waited for his master to return, and when the master returned, he called the servants to account, and was pleased with the first two, but scolded the third for being a lazy bum, and gave his talent to the one with the most.

I think it's a good idea to try to earn money honestly, and not squander your wealth. Another Biblical principle says that the wise man sees the traps set for him, and avoids them. I feel that's why it's a good idea to be investing in precious metals especially at the moment, for the governments have set up a system to trap the people and their money, and wise men will see this and avoid the pitfalls. By investing in precious metals. >>

No, I don't believe a person will or will not go to Hell based on how they invest money.

Yes, I believe you should make the most of your investment dollars. The Bible teaches Christians to be wise stewards of their money for God (who owns it all anyway). They should invest it wisely and make money slowly over time, not sqander it on get-rich-quick schemes. I will agree to disagree with Roadrunner and Deadhorse on this issue that gold is used either as an investment or as a currency for the following reasons:

1. Gold has a HORRIBLE track record over the past 50 years -- around 4.4% -- or just barely over the rate of inflation. You are more likely to lose money in gold due to inflation than in protection of currency value.
2. Historically, gold is NOT used as a medium of exchange when an economy collapses. Look at recent examples like Russia and Iraq.
3. The world's overpopulation ensures that there will not be enough gold to mean anything one way or another in the grand scheme of things if a few wealthy people hoard gold.
4. Electronic transactions and modern technology are not conducive to the use of gold.
5. Most modern governments have eliminated the use of gold-backed currencies.
6. The U.S. debt problem can only be overcome by investment in businesses (like the stock market) and real estate that create income and jobs -- not a metal that cannot do anything by itself.
7. Most people are living paycheck-to-paycheck and cannot possibly, from a practical sense, afford to or have the time to, constantly get their paychecks, trade them for gold, then trade them for currency, pay their bills, trade the remainder for gold, etc. This is nonsense, and is the reason we have a currency in the first place.

By the way, welcome to "my side" of this argument, Atomic! In my opinion, you should NOT take financial advice from BROKE people. If you want to become rich people, you have to do rich people stuff. If you do poor people stuff, you get to become poor people. This is about as simple as I can break down my investment philosophy.

Deadhorse

Don't be talking about giving to the needy when the government takes 50% of my income.

I give to the needy, but I'd do alot more charitable things if I had a little more of my own money left to do it with.

Last Thanksgiving I bought $2000 worth of frozen turkeys and delivered them to the food bank. Let me tell you, the bed of my truck was solid frost and the temp outside was in the 80s.

Charities and the Churches took care of the needy for the first few hundred years in this country untill shortly after WW II and FDR's socialist policies began to take over and be followed by Democrats.

I have worked very hard all my life and when I finally get to the point where I have a comfortable life and a solid income with money left over for investment even after the Govt. takes their pound of flesh, I get very insulted by someone who thinks I should have less just because someone else doesn't have everything I do.

I think I'd better get off this soapbox before I go into rant mode.

If I remember it correctly, in the bible, if you didn't work, you didn't eat. Our society is wealthy beyond belief and there is no reason anyone should go hungry unless they are mentally deficient. I give to the Veterans of Foreign Wars and a number of other charities and sometimes I go a little silly and fill up my truck with frozen turkeys on a whim.

I know I'm a poor guy compared to many on this board, but I'll be damned if I'll sit here and be insulted for trying to secure my financial future.

atomic

<< <i>Don't be talking about giving to the needy when the government takes 50% of my income.

I give to the needy, but I'd do alot more charitable things if I had a little more of my own money left to do it with.

Last Thanksgiving I bought $2000 worth of frozen turkeys and delivered them to the food bank. Let me tell you, the bed of my truck was solid frost and the temp outside was in the 80s.

Charities and the Churches took care of the needy for the first few hundred years in this country untill shortly after WW II and FDR's socialist policies began to take over and be followed by Democrats.

I have worked very hard all my life and when I finally get to the point where I have a comfortable life and a solid income with money left over for investment even after the Govt. takes their pound of flesh, I get very insulted by someone who thinks I should have less just because someone else doesn't have everything I do.

I think I'd better get off this soapbox before I go into rant mode.

If I remember it correctly, in the bible, if you didn't work, you didn't eat. Our society is wealthy beyond belief and there is no reason anyone should go hungry unless they are mentally deficient. I give to the Veterans of Foreign Wars and a number of other charities and sometimes I go a little silly and fill up my truck with frozen turkeys on a whim.

I know I'm a poor guy compared to many on this board, but I'll be damned if I'll sit here and be insulted for trying to secure my financial future. >>



Amen.

Atomic

Higashiyama

Atomic -- yes, it is interesting to watch as globalization moves up the food chain. Even Japan has begun moving certain service jobs to India -- including call centers! The theory, of course, is that we retain higher and higher value added stuff here, or at some point, wages equalize across boundaries. Unless the change is gradual, it could be quite disruptive.

roadrunner

Dollardude believes that the answer to our prayers is to invest in US businesses and real estate, ie. things that promote growth, etc.

Unfortunately, much of our "businesses" these days are just means to transfer wealth from the masses to the few. An incredible amount of our economy is just handling money over and over again taking a % out each time. Real estate "investment" is more about speculation and dumping something to the next guy before things collapse. This is not investment or wealth creation. No different than the upgrading of slabs or coin gradeflation. On paper, it looks like wealth/value was created, but in reality nothing but inflation has occurred. None of this is investing. You can call it that if you want but nothing of real value was created in the 1990's except multiple asset bubbles.

And of course a day without sunshine is like a day where DD doesn't fail to mention what a long term lousy play gold is. Now if that isn't the most ridiculous thing to say. Not one person here on the forum has ever claimed differently. Whey DD feels compelled to mention this every time he posts is beyond me. Gold is a short term play until
the economy gets wrung out, the dollar gets back to strength, and we get to saving and investing. Such is the value of gold and tangible assets. DD forgets that the 1975-1980 PMs era ever existed. Stocks stunk from 1966-1982. They will stick again for a similarly long period, only much more so.

roadrunner

Nedcoinage

Now that was a classic
i love the people who say they started buying at $320, mortgage the house to buy above $400 and then tell you that their average price is $330. good to see that you agree with atomic.

dollardude

Roadrunner, you are finally getting the point I've been trying to make. I NEVER do short-term investing of ANY sort. Period. To me, short-term investing = get-rich-quick-schemes = eventually broke. In fact, I don't advocate any of the following:

1. Precious metals and jewels
2. Individual stocks or exchange-traded funds
3. Stock options (i.e., puts and calls)
4. Margin accounts
5. Day trading
6. Currency trading
7. "No down payment" real estate schemes
8. Lottery (tax on the poor)
9. Gambling
10. Rare coins (as an investment, not as a hobby)
11. CDs (ties your money up too long for too low a return)
12. Bonds (too high a risk for too low a reward -- also turns you into a debt-participator)

I only do long-term investing. In fact, John Bogle, founder of the Vanguard Group, agrees with me on this. He's one of the wisest investment gurus I know.

Nedcoinage

pretty amazing how you have an issue with dollardude. he has offered better advice than anyone here and his advice means you need not mortgage the house. he speaks the truth when it comes to investments, his investment advice is not based on borrowing, it is about savings. how about offering us some of your own investment advice? yeah, thought so.

roadrunner

DD, please don't include me in any way with someone who sees your "point." I don't.

Interesting that you only see indexed FUNDS as the way to salvation. Anyone who buys individual stocks must be a kook. Look at the track records of your so-called investment gurus over the years and you'll find on average that they're worse than if you just went out and bought blind. Also note that VANGUARD dropped their gold fund before gold really took off. Great move guys. Even my own insurance company, USAA, a very conservative firm with mostly military clients, has very successful gold fund. Your including bonds in the same league as gambling/lottery tickets is most comical and only adds to your aura. Next thing you'll be adding to your list of bad investments is a "free lunch."

I see indexed pro-growth stock funds as about the only way to ensure you will take a bath in the coming 5-10 years. Those in selected stocks may escape the blood bath to come if they select wisely. The amount of money going into hedged funds has been increasing exponentially also. Good reason for that too. Also interesting that many Americans are leveraging themselves into debt to participate in this bear market run up. How sad. The stock market talking heads and gurus live off guys like you for lunch. Like the Carleton Sheets' of the world, they got rich by using your money, not their own. Now once again, who should I follow: Warren Buffet (who buys individual companies and seizes single opportunities, purchases foreign currencies, owns metals, etc.) or the likes of Dollardue who preaches otherwise? Hmmmm? Tough choice.

roadrunner

atomic

<< <i>Atomic -- yes, it is interesting to watch as globalization moves up the food chain. Even Japan has begun moving certain service jobs to India -- including call centers! The theory, of course, is that we retain higher and higher value added stuff here, or at some point, wages equalize across boundaries. Unless the change is gradual, it could be quite disruptive. >>



Exactly. Sure, the trend is good and inevitable but there's a relative rate of change problem re developing R&D jobs in the US and professional jobs moving overseas. Training for the professional jobs has been going on for a long time. What has the US done to meet new labor requirements in the US?

Atomic

Deadhorse

<< <i>Now that was a classic
i love the people who say they started buying at $320, mortgage the house to buy above $400 and then tell you that their average price is $330. good to see that you agree with atomic. >>



Ned, why don't you just PM me and we can settle your issues with me once and for all. I bought nearly all my gold quite awhile ago, only added about 20 ounces since the price got near the $400 level. I have invested large, as in six figure amounts, in silver, not gold.

90% or more of my precious metals investments are in silver. You really should read me a little closer instead of looking for anything that doesn't exactly match a prevoius post.

Are you a prosecuting attorney or just a jerk trying to act like one? Would you like me to break down my total holdings in PMs and email you an excell spreadsheet? Perhaps you'd prefer I just post it here publicly.

Do you have anythng to add to the discussion except to hound me with your incorrect assumptions?

Just what the <censored> is your problem?

Deadhorse

<< <i>Exactly. Sure, the trend is good and inevitable but there's a relative rate of change problem re developing R&D jobs in the US and professional jobs moving overseas. Training for the professional jobs has been going on for a long time. What has the US done to meet new labor requirements in the US?

Atomic >>



Reagan's tax cuts allowed the room for R&D which lead to the tecnology boom in the 90s. Sadly, Clinton took credit for it and some fools still give him the credit. Hopefully recent tax breaks with more on the way can lead to the R&D which will develop new technologies to bring back the US economy.

I'm sure that was the Bush Administration plan, let's hope we get another 4 years of it.

KUCH

<< <i>Don't be talking about giving to the needy when the government takes 50% of my income.


I know I'm a poor guy compared to many on this board, but I'll be damned if I'll sit here and be insulted for trying to secure my financial future. [/q

Double Ditto's.... I'm with you Deadhorse. The Government takes too much of our money! Thank god for Bush's tax cuts. If anyone out there thinks they'll become rich with the Democrats in office.. Oh my gosh! Vote Republican in 2004! I want to keep my money, the govn., nor anyone else didn't earned it. I did, through hard work and dedication.

1jester

Good post, Deadhorse, about how unfair the tax rate is in the US. Granted, it's a bit better than all the other socialist/communist countries of the world, but still, 50%+ of one's income can only be termed theft.