Waiting for PCGS to grade coins is a very grievous process...

LincolnCentMan

You know, I sent in two invoices over two months ago. I'm on day 68 today with little cause to believe they'll get graded this week. When I sent them in, the estimate was 40 days. I reciently thought about how my mood changes as I wait....... and wait....... and wait...... and wait....... and wait....... and wait.........

Interestingly enough, I've noticed that the squince of emotions very closely resembles the five stages of grief as proposed by Elisabeth Kubler-Ross.

denial... ok, I've never denighed it... but I did say "resembles"

anger... no disputed this one, I was HACKED... as I'm sure a lot of other people are too.

bargaining... thinking to self, maybe if I call them and ask them to send mine through... I wouldnt tell a sole

depression... thinking, "total bummer, I've got all that money froze up. PCGS has had my money for two weeks." I give up. I almost dont even care anymore.

acceptance... I'm tired waiting. There are better things to preocuppy my time. I'm moving on.


David

calgolddiver

anticipation ?

it's all in the spin.

itsnotjustme

I had an amazing thing happen today. Grades posted and I had not gone to the web site more than once to confirm the order was received. I swear a certain invoice I check 10 times a day for 5 weeks!

golddustin

I sent a submssion to them (they got it on 12/1)..at that time economy service was 30 days. As I watch and wait, it has also gone thru stages....from 30 days to 45 days, to 60 days, to the current 65 days. The last time I called (about 10 days ago) I was told my coins "are in the grading room"...but that there is no estimated time that they could be in there. I guess at least they're headed in the right direction, but it's gotta be at least 48 days by now (since they don't count w/e & holidays). I've decided to watch paint dry..........

techeff

My 15 day guarantee was 15 days late... Did PCGS offer me a free submission or any apologies?? Of course not! HRH, please work on your customer service, your reputation is at stake...

golddustin

Might be that (this is the cynical side of me, now) they are subtly encouraging the express & other more expensive services? Anyway, I just today got my new member package from NGC...I was curious to see how they do..I'll send them a few coins in the next day or so.

techeff

... and BTW, my grades were posted a day AFTER I received my coins...

dorkkarl

why are you sending coins in? aren't you satisfied w/ how YOU grade them?

K S

Deadhorse

After my recent 113 day experience with PCGS I've decided to aqquire PCGS coins from either other collectors/dealers or eBay.

PCGS will only get high-end coins from me anymore. I have two in right now and I'm not even going to say what they are since one is quite rare and someone from PCGS may be reading this board.

I almost wish that last one had gone anther 8 or 9 days, then I could legitimately say it took 1/3 of a year. I'm happy for their success, but it's driven me away for the most part.

Of course I prefer PCGS slabbed coins over anything else, but I have to be realistic.

I wonder how many people have passed away or been killed in accidents while waiting for their coins from PCGS? It's a strange thought, I know, but one that has occured to me recently.

nwcs

Well, I haven't submitted a coin in quite a while so I'm getting instant gratification now. I got tired of the long waits.

BAJJERFAN

Maybe they PCGS should start paying interest on your money!!


<<"why are you sending coins in? aren't you satisfied w/ how YOU grade them?">>

Karl!! You never cease to amaze me! Some people actually intend to sell coins either by design or sometimes out of necessity. Its an indisputable fact that coins in PCGS holders almost always sell faster and for more money than the same coin will raw.

It has been said that a person's choice isn't as important as his reason for making that choice.
If you like yours raw thats fine but why knock others who prefer the benefits that slabbed coins have to offer.

LincolnCentMan

Might be that (this is the cynical side of me, now) they are subtly encouraging the express & other more expensive services? Anyway, I just today got my new member package from NGC...I was curious to see how they do..I'll send them a few coins in the next day or so.

Maybe. My PCGS membership expired a couple of weeks ago. I havent renewed. I do have NGC membership now, however.

David

LincolnCentMan

Maybe they PCGS should start paying interest on your money!!

Or maybe they should charge your credit card when they have rendered services... not when they receive the package.

David

pow012000

I reciently thought about how my mood changes as I wait....... and wait....... and wait...... and wait....... and wait....... and wait.........

How aboout the one that you when your thinking, "im waiting this long and they will all come back a grade less then i want anyways"

LincolnCentMan

why are you sending coins in? aren't you satisfied w/ how YOU grade them?

Since you have a limited view of my position and idiosyncrasies, it shall be my endeavor to elaborate on my position. In the interest of consistency, I want them all raw... or all slabbed. Most of my purchases are online, not sight seen. I buy slabbed to protect my investment, with regard to resell value, dishonest sellers, and sellers that cant grade accurately. I'm not going to pass on a screamer just b/c it's raw. I buy those and send them in myself.

David

dorkkarl

if YOU think it's a screamer, why do you care what PCGS thinks?

K S

BAJJERFAN

<<"if YOU think it's a screamer, why do you care what PCGS thinks?">>

I don't care what PCGS thinks BUT if I'm selling I care what the "market" thinks.

golddustin

I agree with the forum member who always says "buy the coin, not the slab!", and I do buy a fair amount of raw coins when I can see them (at shows, local auctions, etc)...but face it - how many of us are going to keep our entire collections forever? You can't take 'em with you, and at some point we're gonna be selling/auctioning parts or all of our collections. eBay notes that the number one (or two) search keyword for coins is 'PCGS'......so if you're ever looking to sell a piece, it certainly helps to have the authenticity that PCGS provides. Teletrade could not exsist w/o grading services...and they move alot of coins. My favorite album, which is a variety of type and commemorative halves, is probably made up of about 50% raw and 50% coins from cracked slabs - so I don't have to have the PCGS label on a coin to buy it, but when trying to sell to the public at large, who don't know me from Bunky Hunt, it's pretty much a necessity to have some 3rd party grade on it.

Russ

<< <i>acceptance... I'm tired waiting. There are better things to preocuppy my time. I'm moving on. >>



I haven't gotten to that stage yet - still check a dozen times a day. Day 77 and counting.

Russ, NCNE

LALASD4

What would happen if everyone dispute PCGS's charge on their credit cards if they do not received their service in a timely manner? If they take too long to grade the coins, are they not in breach of their contract? isn't that a good enough reason for the credit card companies to do a chargeback on your account at least until the service had been performed?

Russ

<< <i>What would happen if everyone dispute PCGS's charge on their credit cards if they do not received their service in a timely manner? >>



Then they would simply, and legally, keep your coins. It's called a mechanic's lien.

Russ, NCNE

LALASD4

"Then they would simply, and legally, keep your coins. It's called a mechanic's lien."

But since they are in breach of contract and have performed no service, how can they legally place a lien on your asset?

Russ

<< <i>But since they are in breach of contract and have performed no service, how can they legally place a lien on your asset? >>



What contract have they breached? Answer: None. If they NEVER graded the coins, you could make a case. But, even though they are slow, they still fulfill their end by eventually performing the service.

Yes, they automatically have a lien on the asset until payment for service has been rendered. It's no different than if you take your car in to have the transmission replaced, or have your house re-roofed. File a chargeback, and they can legally keep the coins.

Russ, NCNE

LALASD4

If you contract to have your house painted next week and they do not paint it until next year and you paid today with your credit card, what do you think the credit card company will do? what do you think the judge will said on any lien, since they never paint your house ? do you think the judge will said, pay them now they could paint your house whenever they want?

Russ

<< <i>If you contract to have your house painted next week and they do not paint it until next year and you paid today with your credit card >>



If you have a written contract with the painter for completion of the job in one week, you may - or may not - be able to make a chargeback stick if the job didn't get done until next year. It would depend on the specific details of the contract.

In the case of submissions, economy and modern come with no guarantee whatsoever. No contract there. In the case of the higher tiers, the recourse is specifically outlined as free submissions. Even if they didn't provide the free submissions, they have still performed the service originally contracted for.

If anyone thinks a chargeback would be effective, go for it. I'm sure PCGS could use a few more coins for their grading set.

Russ, NCNE

LALASD4

Regular* $30 15 days guaranteed , that sounds like a contract to me.

Russ

<< <i>Regular* $30 15 days guaranteed , that sounds like a contract to me. >>



With the recourse specifically outlined as free submissions should it not be completed within 15 business days, not including shows with on-site grading. So, again, where have they breached a contract if they are late getting the coins done? They haven't.

Russ, NCNE

Colorfulcoins

I actually ....suggested .....to DH in the Q&A forum that the economy turn-around times estimates posted on the PCGS site be charge to note the day count is BUSINESS days, not calendar days. Figure it out for yourself or take my word....65 business days (13 weeks) is 91 calendar days and that's 3 MONTHS. Of course, one must add holidays and shows dates since thos days aren't counted.

So no complaining <grin> until ecomony submission go ver 90 days from now on <grin>......course I'm also on calendar day 66 for my submission (I think its day 33 for business days) so I still have 32 more business days which is 6 more weeks (early March)......

LucyBop

More Grading for me!

LALASD4

Well you are right, I just read the terms and conditions and it basically says pay them now and they will do it whenever they want. But the 15 days guaranteed might sound misleading to a judge, remember even McDonald's could be sue for selling hamburgers.....

PCGS GRADING TERMS AND PROCEDURES
1. PCGS will endeavor to grade coins within the time frame, if any, offered as part of a PCGS grading service. However, PCGS will have no liability whatsoever to Customer for incidental or consequential damages due to PCGS's failure to grade any coin within any time frame.
2. PCGS will not grade coins which bear evidence of harsh cleaning, artificial toning, damaged surfaces, excessive major marks, planchet flaws, altered surfaces, PVC damage, or similar impairments. Customer agrees that in the event PCGS rejects any coin for grading in accordance with PCGS's current grading standards and procedures, PCGS shall not refund the fee paid by Customer because the determination to reject a coin requires a review by PCGS's grading experts.
3. Grading involves individual judgments that are subjective and require the exercise of professional opinion, which can change from time to time. Therefore, PCGS disclaims any warranties, express or implied with respect to the grade assigned by PCGS to any coin, except pursuant to PCGS's guarantee resubmission, re-verification or regrade service as in effect from time to time.
4. If PCGS determines that Customer's coin was lost or damaged while in PCGS's possession, Customer will be compensated in accordance with PCGS's standard procedures and not necessarily based upon the insured value the customer assigned to the coin. Such compensation shall be Customer's exclusive remedy for any loss or damage, and PCGS disclaims any liability for incidental or consequential damages arising therefrom.
5. Customer must inspect all coins immediately upon receipt and PCGS disclaims any liability for damage or discrepancies (such as errors pertaining to the description of the coin) unless reported to PCGS within five (5) days of Customer's receipt of the coin(s). Customer agrees to return any incorrectly described coin to PCGS upon request for correction and agress to indemnify and hold PCGS harmless from any and all losses and / or claims caused by the circulation or sale of incorrectly described coin.
6.PCGS shall have no liability whatsoever to the customer for any personal injury or damage to any coin, or otherwise, resulting from the breaking open of a PCGS coin holder, or for any damage to any coin that PCGS can reasonably demonstrate occured while not in the custody or control of PCGS.
Customer agrees (a) to pay PCGS all fees and other charges when due; (b) that any delinquent balances shall accrue interest at the rate of 10% per year until paid; and (c) that PCGS shall have a security interest in the coins submitted, as well as in any other property of Customer in the possession of PCGS or its affiliates, to secure payment thereof.
7.Customer agrees (a) to pay PCGS all fees and other charges when due; (b) that any delinquent balances shall accrue interest at the rate of 10% per year until paid; and (c) that PCGS shall have a security interest in the coins submitted, as well as in any other property of Customer in the possession of PCGS or its affiliates, to secure payment thereof.
8. Except as expressly set forth herein, PCGS disclaims any and all warranties, express or implied, regarding PCGS goods and services including the warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose.
9. Exclusive jurisdiction and venue for any dispute arising from Customer's submission of coins to PCGS shall be in the Superior Court, Orange County, California, and Customer agrees to waive any right to a trial by jury in any such action, and further agrees that the prevailing party in any such action shall be entitled to an award of its attorney's fees and costs.

riches123

maybe they should stop doing eagles look's like they did 8000 sileve eagles in 2003 that would give them more time for outher coins as a new member i have got my free 2004 eagle from them and also see there are some on ebay they can send out 2004 eagles but not coins they have had there from 2003

Boom

Unless PCGS takes measures to correct these problems and to appease the growing number of unhappy submitters, inevitably this will be their own undoing! If you raise hell about the turnaround times, they take it out on the grades of your coins...of this I am CONVINCED! Too many inconsistencies when it comes down to the actual grading therefore ...the submit/ re-submit game, at our expense! If they are as good as everyone in the front office THINKS they are-they would get it right the FIRST TIME. I'm sorry, but it's becoming obvious to me that it IS all about money. Submit/ re-submit= money/ MORE MONEY. I'll also go on record as saying that common sense would dictate that if a company is so overloaded and backed up with work that expansion would be in order...doubling maybe even tripling the work force and the actual size of the facilities. If PCGS does not take measures to correct an ever worsening problem, as is shown here, people are growing weary of this nonsense and will just stop submitting coins to them. Suppose all of us-who ARE PCGS BY THE WAY- just all stop sending coins in for grading until they get caught up...just STOP DRY for say...3 months.. That MIGHT send a message. Whoever dubbed PCGS the #1 grading service anyway? Just exactly how did they EARN this "title"? Something is definitely amiss when a coin has been submitted raw/ graded and authenticated by PCGS, cracked out and re-submitted two more times and each time it comes back a different grade! (And NO...no damage was inlicted to the coin when cracked out VERY CAREFULLY) That is not the sign of a top-notch grading service. Consistency is. Customer satisfaction is...keeping one's word/"guarantee" is! Unless these problems are addressed some hungry, new kid on the block (as PCGS once was) WILL come along and take over the fat cat's #1 position. I'm not impressed with grading inconsistencies nor "guaranteed" turnarounds that mean absolutely NOTHING or the words that came straight out of the head Honcho's mouth, right here in this Forum, that have thus far proven to not be true! Exactly what steps has PCGS taken to address these problems-can anyone name even ONE?

LALASD4

I agree with you BOOM that a company will have to face expansion or eventual extinction!!

LucyBop

<< <i>I agree with you BOOM that a company will have to face expansion or eventual extinction!! >>



I disagree, sure people leave, new ones come. PCGs was in buisness when they just took submissions from dealers and not the little collector...

I'm with you cats in wishing the times improve, but PCGs is obviously very buisness and making some money with all the submissions they are getting.... Buisness is booming for them........

I have similar waits with CGC, and on their forums, the same type of stuff is discussed.....

LALASD4

Apple Computer had the same attitude and look what Microsoft did to them!!!

LucyBop

<< <i>Apple Computer had the same attitude and look what Microsoft did to them!!! >>



Apple had another very huge problem......

they had me and Intel against them...

poor analogy on this one...

Apple... we smoked em with our Pentiums.....

LALASD4

In 1981, Jobs would be laughing too if you ask him who Bill Gates was.

And for the record, Apple always had the better and faster machines, it is their attitude that send them into bankruptcy.

Boom

If there are World class graders working for PCGS there should be no need for resubmissions nor should the same coin come back a different grade each time it is sent in. If you're going to do a job and you are the best at what you do, people that pay sizeable amounts of money for your services deserve and should expect your very best the first time around! It's called attention to detail...QUALITY CONTROL. If there are 2-3-4 graders and a verification room-then someone please explain to me how a coin submitted for crossover DID CROSS and was given a PCGS certification number and a PCGS grade, yet made it past all these graders AND this "verification room"...ALL THESE PEOPLE and returned to the customer in the slab(the competitor's) that it was sent to PCGS in!? How does this happen if people are paying attention to detail? I am NOT anti PCGS! I wouldn't have freely joined this club or freely spend LOTS of money with PCGS if I didn't believe in them! What I AM SAYING IS PCGS HAS SOME VERY REAL ISSUES THAT NEED ADDRESSING! Expand and spend some of this money you're making hand over fist PCGS and invest back into your own business, MR. HALL, before all these disgruntled people that obviously at one point or another believed in you, one day have enough of all this! I say these things not out of malice or spite but because I truly do care! Someone needs to grab the bull by the horns and do something!.... IT AIN'T GONNA FIX ITSELF.

LucyBop

<< <i>In 1981, Jobs would be laughing too if you ask him who Bill Gates was. >>



Can't see what this has to do with the subject at hand?

in 2004, I'm laughing right now.

LALASD4

<< In 1981, Jobs would be laughing too if you ask him who Bill Gates was. >>



Can't see what this has to do with the subject at hand?

in 2004, I'm laughing right now.



What I am saying is that even a company with a suprior product in a booming industry will fail if it does not take care of the needs of its customers! Does anyone disagree?

And I know this is off the subject. Maybe there should be a MPCGS, More Profesional Coin Grading Service.

jeffnpcb

If you are a collector and not a big dealer, I fail to see the problem with grading times. I have only sent a handful of submissions to them in the last several years. 4 to 24 coins at one time and wasn't in a hurry to get them back, it doesn't pay the bills to survive. The low amount were free and the others were parts of my various collection series.

Take a deep breath, relax and if it is that much of a bother, pay more and submit more!

LucyBop

Heh Heh, all this talk, while I'm packing yet another submission for PCGs...

More PCGs for me!

Wish me luck on this one...... This is the third nice 55d I'm going to be waiting on...