Then why not grade it?

qualitycards · January 27, 2004 2:58PM

Saw this auction for an ungraded Paige '53, the seller believes it might be a 10, and states if graded it should grade high.
So he is aware of the benefits of grading, so why have all this doubt of its authenticity? He states it is an original '53 not a reprint.
But a '53 Paige in a PSA-9 smr's for $12,500.00 and even asn 8 smr's for $2200.00 - so why settle for a few hundred knowing this?
Paige ungraded 1953 Topps

kuhlmann · January 27, 2004 3:03PM

Maybe he thinks grading is nothing but a scam!! Im leaning that way myself lately. to many cards ive seen on ebay and at shows that have a 8-10 grade and i cant believe it. i saw a barry bonds graded 9 i thought was a 5-6 edgeing was all messed up. value of graded cards will start droping like crazy in the next 2-3 years. to much opionion on the grade and no fact.

qualitycards · January 27, 2004 3:09PM

If he thinks its a scam, why mention it throughout the title & description. I would think if he has such a high opinion of that card, isn't it worth $10 to grade it to net thousands of dollars more? I'm not saying the seller is a bum or a thief, just curious of his marketing approach...jay

BugOnTheRug · January 27, 2004 3:37PM

Quality,
I agree, grading it would be the best money-wise, but my guess he knows more than he's letting on. He's also spamming via the PSA 10 description.

Way too many ebayers use extremely trumped-up descriptions to define their items. This is my biggest pet peeve about sellers in general. Instead of idle speculation, why not provide clear, concise information. In this case, the scans are not satisfactory for the potential caliber of card. White on white? Get real!

I only bid on items where I feel the seller is level-headed about his wares. For the very few I get sucked into by the 'hype', so far I've been 100% refunded.

Kuhlmann, you sound like a carbon-copy of JoeS. You need to expand your horizons...........

BOTR

DeutscherGeist · January 27, 2004 3:57PM

if he thinks its a 10, he is only giving his opinion, which means nothing. Who know what grade it will get. No need to take the risk of buying a pig in a poke. In general, buying raw cards off of ebay is living on the edge.

Glynparson · January 28, 2004 1:04AM

if by edgeing you meant a rough cut then you are simply unaware that the cut does not effect the grade in PSA standards it may keep a card from a 10 but it never will stop a card from being a 9 yes grading can be subjective but it is here to stay on High dollar vintage cards there is way to much being spent on them by alot of people with a lot of money and a great love of sports sorry to disappoint you kuhlman but grading at least on vintage material is here to stay.

kuhlmann · January 28, 2004 1:51AM

We shall see what the future holds on it. I think it wont be long until this is talked about on 20/20 or 60 minutes.
It just bugs me that one company can say trimmed and another will slap a 9 grade on it.
I bet if i had a friend that worked for beckett or psa all my cards would get graded, it might be who you know over there also or how much money you spend with them to get the higher grade. I hope cards hold value graded but i have a feeling this is going to hit a brick wall soon. not enough FACT involved.

Glynparson · January 28, 2004 3:29AM

Kuhlmann Id take that bet one guy can not get cards graded it is much more difficult to get stuff through PSA then you seem to think the cards are looked at by more then just one individual. because an underpaid grader at beckett slaps a card in a holder doesnt mean the well compensated and much more knowledgable graders at PSA or SGC would let it through. Seems like you must have had some pro or beckett cards you tried to have PSA that were rejected that does not mean the end to all graded cards because there are shady people outtheir you must not have been buying much in the early 90s when you would go to a major show and half the stuff would be bad. i used to work for a company that submitted over a thousand cards a week to psa we got no special breaks on grades they would not slap things in holders just for us because we were such good customers you may want to do a little more research before you throw around some of your dead wrong opinions kuhlmann.

kuhlmann · January 28, 2004 4:56AM

Actually i never had a card rejected by psa. Only beckett has rejected some cards. My whole point is none of this grading is FACT!
Until it becomes fact i see the prices starting to drop. they are already droping.

Glynparson · January 28, 2004 5:20AM

To be honest with you grading is inherently subjective it can never be fact and as for your prices are dropping i have actually noticed some very strong prices lately granted i am talking VINTAGE not cards that have almost always sold for more then they are worth (MODERN). also if you had cards rejected by beckett they most have not only been trimmed but they had to be short of required measurements as beckett will generally holder trimmed cards if they measure properly which is why i know no major dealer that sells beckett exclusively

Stone193 · January 28, 2004 5:44AM

From the new kid, I've purchased ungraded cards for years from reputable people and although they have a generous return policy, it's still a big hastle to return stuff - it seems that even the best people seem to try push stuff out the door in hopes it won't come back-a-knockin. Speaking of grading - has anyone heard of Gem Grading service - I've seen some eBayers (e.g.Kane04) who have a boat load of Gem10's for sale - talked with a few past buyers who say you'll wind up with trimmed cards, some even counterfeit. Have never had that with PSA.

ctsoxfan · January 28, 2004 6:25AM

Gem grading is junk. Don't waste your time with them, and if you need more than that, just search this forum for more negative opinions on their "grading". (I don't recall ever seeing anything less than a Gem "10". Do they even have any lesser grades? Or, as long as your dog didn't eat the card, it's a GEM 10!)

Kuhlmann, you don't seem like you have any faith in the concept of graded cards. You mention how this concept is potentially flawed every chance you get, and seem to think this whole thing is a sham. That being the case, I am not sure why you are browsing these forums.

gemint · January 28, 2004 7:41AM

<< <i>Maybe he thinks grading is nothing but a scam!! Im leaning that way myself lately. to many cards ive seen on ebay and at shows that have a 8-10 grade and i cant believe it. i saw a barry bonds graded 9 i thought was a 5-6 edgeing was all messed up. value of graded cards will start droping like crazy in the next 2-3 years. to much opionion on the grade and no fact. >>

If you feel that way, start buying raw cards on eBay on a regular basis. Before long, you will likely return to buying graded cards. 99% of the graded cards I've purchased met my expectations. Certainly there are misgrades out there. However, I have an infinitely more successful hit rate when purchasing cards graded by reputable companies than when I purchase raw cards.

As for the market, I see few signs of prices softening. Most cases where prices have declined can be attributed to higher populations (e.g., increased supply). I'm talking mostly vintage here. Modern has been, and probably always will be, volatile. I've also noticed that cards which used to hit the market frequently in past years but have been in short supply recently see a recovery in value when one does hit the market after the 'drought'.

Lothar52 · January 28, 2004 8:48AM

by the time it comes back from PSA not legit....he will be gone....count on it

loth

CADILLACN97 · January 28, 2004 9:44AM

if grading does fold at some point, i am more than confident and happy that i could crack them all out of psa slabs and never once have anyone say, "that it isn't mint or nm", or "that it is trimmed". i will know that i have a top notch card, with no fear that it may have ever been altered.

DeutscherGeist · January 28, 2004 11:04AM

I have seen on these boards comments on the big 4: GAI, PSA, BGS, SCG. Why is BGS in this group if they grade trimmed cards? Does Beckett really have lower paid, lesser experienced graders than SCG or PSA? BGS cards sell for more than PSA cards on identical player issues, especially the modern stuff. Why do BGS cards sell for higher $$$ if some of their cards are trimmed?

CADILLACN97 · January 28, 2004 12:27PM

i do not own one bgs card so i cannot speculate. i only know from what i read on these boards that they grade sheet cut cards, and a few cards here and there that have been trimmed. but there have been cards that are in psa slabs that have been trimmed also, i'm sure. some will get by, but the % is smaller the better the grading company. i have seen people on these boards get a rejected for trimming from bgs, and psa will slab it, and the opposite.
as far as beckett selling for more $, i guess it depends whose buying what on what day. remember, dr. beckett has been the greatest thing ever in this hobby we love. at least he was when i was a kid. but then ebay came along and told him otherwise. i think most people buy into bgs because beckett was IT for so long, they just assume that their grading is IT also. stick with what you know, and before ebay, all we knew was beckett. i have my personal reasons for not using their service, but i have never had a problem with psa, so i will stick with what i know.

anybody here ever submitted to pgs?? while they are a third tier company i have never heard about anything wrong with them (except maybe an overgrade or two off of what psa would). just curious as i might have them slab some cards just to have them slabbed. low dollar stuff and small insert sets that i wouldn't sell anyway, but i don't want to pay psa prices neither. on their website it says they don't guarantee turnaround times, but they do offer free shipping. if anybody has PLMK.

Then why not grade it?

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