OT - who really controls the US economy

roadrunner

interesting reading on who really controls the US financial system and under the current system the end result is not pretty.

who really runs the show

roadrunner

wingedliberty

Excellent article. I would highly recommend -The Creature from Jekyll Island-.
How many average citizens really know that The Federal Reserve is a system of PRIVATE banks that control the economy through the Council of Foreign Relations? Probably only 1%.

MrEureka

Ridiculous article. (Sorry, Brian & Brian.)

AValde

So, have you guys heard the latest development on the money front.

The government is recalling 30 year bond. The bonds that people in the 1970s bought so that they could retire on money that yielded 6% on their capital. So there goes retirement for many old folks.

LucyBop

Ross Perot said the Little Green men did it.....

RegistryCoin

I thought it was a "finalizer" that controlled it...

dollardude

Good morning. I read this article, and I'm going to stir the pot, because I think people need to hear the truth. This is pure bull$hit and a sales pitch for suckers who are dumb enough to fall for this scam. If you insist on investing in gold, you will likely lose your butt. Yes, we have problems in this country. No country is perfect. No, gold is not the "savior" or the "answer". The answer is within ourselves, not a cold piece of metal. Even if it were, with the huge population on the earth today (6-7 BILLION people), there is NO way private individuals could use gold as a means of exchange. With technology where it is today, most transactions are electronic and do NOT involve gold. Furthermore, gold has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with modern monetary policy. Since most people live paycheck-to-paycheck, there is NO way most people could afford to buy gold anyway. It would take a large portion of people to make gold work as a medium of exchange, and, given the huge population, huge debt, and limited supply, this simply cannot happen. I agree with what the Bible says about people trying to get rich quick. The Bible says that those who do will NOT go unpunished.

<< Billions for the Bankers, Debts for the People

The Real Story of the Money-Control Over America
by Pastor Sheldon Emry circa 1960

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." Thomas Jefferson >>

Private banks do NOT control the issue of money. In fact, we are beyond the point in our history when private banks issued bank notes. We have a modern federal reserve system in this country that regulates the amount of money that exists at any point in time, which determines the inflation rate. Every country MUST have some sort of monetary system so people can expeditiously exchange goods and services for other goods and services.

<< Americans, living in what is called the richest nation on earth, seem always to be short of money. Wives are working in unprecedented numbers, husbands hope for overtime hours to earn more, or take part-time jobs evenings and weekends, children look for odd jobs for spending money, the family debt climbs higher, and psychologists say one of the biggest causes of family quarrels and breakups is "arguments over money." Much of this trouble can be traced to our present "debt-money" system. Too few Americans realize why our founding fathers wrote into Article I of the U.S. Constitution: Congress shall have the Power to Coin Money and Regulate the Value Thereof. They did this, as we will show, in prayerful hope it would prevent "love of money" from destroying the Republic they had founded. We shall see how subversion of Article I has brought upon us the horrors of which Jefferson had warned. They did this, as we will show, in prayerful hope it would prevent "love of money" from destroying the Republic they had founded. We shall see how subversion of Article I has brought upon us the horrors of which Jefferson had warned. >>

I agree that Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck and are generally broke and in debt. In spite of this, many people in this country have an unhealthy "love of money" (which they don't even have to begin with) that Jefferson warned about. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is and has been for many years. The Bible says that money is the root of many kinds of evil, and I believe it. I preach every chance I get this new concept of actually living debt-free and building wealth slowly over time. I try to live my life differently than most people, and I believe those of us who do become the leaders of the society and drive the country in the right direction. However, even this immense screwup of living broke and in debt hasn't affected the monetary system in our country, and hasn't caused subversion. The minority of people who are doing the right thing overcome for the majority of the people who screw up with money. We have existed steadily as a nation now for nearly 230 years, and have risen to become the world's superpower and leader.

<< MONEY IS MAN'S ONLY "CREATION"
Economists use the term "create" when speaking of the process by which money comes into existence. Now, creation means making something that did not exist before. Lumbermen make boards from trees, workers build houses from lumber, and factories manufacture automobiles from metal, glass and other materials. But in all these they did not "create," they only changed existing materials into a more usable and, therefore, more valuable form. This is not so with money. Here, and here alone, man actually "creates" something out of nothing. A piece of paper of little value is printed so that it is worth a piece of lumber. With different figures it can buy the automobile or even the house. Its value has been "created" in the true meaning of the word. >>

This is bull$hit. A country has to create some sort of medium of exchange. Money is simply that. It is a convenient way for people to exchange goods and services for other goods and services. Anyone with an IQ of more than 10 knows that the paper itself has no intrinsic value. The value is in the people themselves. Money is just a simple way to express that. Value in an economy is created when businesses are formed and grow, thus creating jobs and income. Ordinary people can start with virtually nothing and share in the growth of an economy by investing in good growth stock mutual funds and becoming millionaires.

I could go on with my rant, but I'll stop here. I know a lot of folks disagree, but I felt like I need to make a point here.

<< So, have you guys heard the latest development on the money front.

The government is recalling 30 year bond. The bonds that people in the 1970s bought so that they could retire on money that yielded 6% on their capital. So there goes retirement for many old folks. >>

So what? The government has the right to "refinance" debt, just as a person has a right to refinance a mortgage. That's why I don't recommend bonds as an investment. They have virtually the same risk level as a conservative growth stock mutual fund, but a much lower rate of return, on average. And, the debt can be refinanced.

1jester

"The Bible says that money is the root of many kinds of evil, and I believe it." --dollardude

I'm sorry to say that you're misinformed on this one, sir. The Bible says that "the love of money is the root of evil."

dollardude

Yes, you're right, the LOVE of money is the root of many kinds of evil. Money itself is neither good nor evil. It's what you do with it that makes it good or evil. I had to learn this lesson the hard way. I'll repeat my personal experience here again. I went COMPLETELY BROKE. I think God was teaching me that money was not everything. When I got to the point where I didn't care if I ever made another dollar or not, God blessed me many times over from what I had before being wiped out. For those of you who don't believe in God, believe this story. Yes, God is REAL and WORKS in people's lives.

I'd like to add some thoughts. The point of the article was basically that the U.S. government owes so much money that the monetary system will collapse. The fed is controlled by banks who lent them money at interest. I agree this is a serious problem. I believe that we can lick this problem if we fix the debt problem in our own lives and elect officials who will balance the budget and start to pay off the debt. There may be some inflation while the government prints more money to help pay off the debt.

I'd also like to add another thought. When you get your 1040 in the mail (or when you do your taxes electronically), take a look at the chart that shows where federal spending goes to. You will see that a large chunk of spending goes JUST TO PAY THE INTEREST ON THE NATIONAL DEBT. When the Bible mentions debt, it ONLY mentions it as a CURSE. We really need to clean up our personal financial situations so that we can help clean up our country's financial situation.

1jester

Brilliant post, Dollardude, and I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Also, the Bible says you can't have two masters; you can't worship both God and money. It also says that the ability to earn wealth is a God-given talent. We are to be thankful for what we have, praise and thank God, and live according to His principles (one of which involves living without debt whenever possible).

SportsModerator

Roadrunner:

Very familiar with the "The Creature"

There are so many other sources available out there on the net for a person, who's so inclined, to get to the truth. Alas many prefer to stay in their Matrix world and exist is their propagandized bliss. I'm sure that once taking the red pill, even Dollardude might become enlightened.

MrEureka

Many myths to debunk here. It will take a while:

Here's one: The Fed does not keep most of the interest it earns. It sends it all (less expenses) to the US Treasury, which then books the payment as revenue. (Details here.)

MrEureka

Perhaps my favorite quote from the Pastor's article follows. Does anyone on this board actually believe this?

Bankers who control the money at the top are able to approve or disapprove large loans to large and successful corporations to the extent that refusal of a loan will bring about a reduction in the price that that Corporation's stock sells for on the market. After depressing the price, the Bankers' agents buy large blocks of the stock, after which the sometimes multi-million dollar loan is approved, the stock rises, and is then sold for a profit. In this manner billions of dollars are made with which to buy more stock. This practice is so refined today that the Federal Reserve Board need only announce to the newspapers an increase or decrease in their "rediscount rate" to send stocks up and down as they wish. Using this method since 1913, the Bankers and their agents have purchased secret or open control of almost every large corporation in America. Using that control, they then force the corporations to borrow huge sums from their banks so that corporation earnings are siphoned off in the form of interest to the banks. This leaves little as actual "profits" which can be paid as dividends and explains why stock prices are often depressed, while the banks reap billions in interest from corporate loans. In effect, the bankers get almost all of the profits, while individual stockholders are left holding the bag.

What was this guy smoking???

MrEureka

The only way new money (which is not true money, but is "credit" representing a debt), goes into circulation in America is when it is borrowed from Bankers. When the State and people borrow large sums, we seem to prosper. However, the Bankers "create" only the amount of the principal of each loan, never the extra amount needed to pay the interest. Therefore. the new money never equals the new debt added. The amounts needed to pay the interest on loans is not "created," and therefore does not exist!

Under this kind of a system, where new debt always exceeds the new money no matter how much or how little is borrowed, the total debt increasingly outstrips the amount of money available to pay the debt. The people can never, ever get out of debt!

Obviously, there are many potential sources for the funds required to pay interest. Nobody prevents borrowers from earning money with which to pay interest. Nobody prevents borrowers from selling assests to cover their interest costs. In most cases, borrowers can even borrow more money to pay interest.

Again, what was this guy smoking???

MrEureka

So-called "economic experts" write syndicated columns in hundreds of newspapers, craftily designed to prevent the people from learning the simple truth about our money system. Commentators on radio and TV, preachers, educators, and politicians blame the people as wasteful, lazy, or, spend-thrift, and blame the workers, and consumers for the increase in debts and the inflation of prices, when they know the cause is the debt-money system itself.

The econmists, educators, preachers and journalists are in on the plot too?

itsnotjustme

First thing I do when evaluating an article is consider the source. I have done no research and only scanned the article, but right away I know much of it is bunk. When I hit what I know to be factual error, I see no reason to read further unless I want to know what people are being told.

roadrunner

Seems I can make reference to peeing in a pot and I'd bet Dollardude would find a way to construe that as a reference to gold.
If DD read the whole article I'd be very surprised. And it is amazing he took not one thing positive from the article. Amazing! For me,
I never quite understood the Federal Reserve's role and that they are not just an outside entity like the Supreme Court or something.
Moneychangers is a pretty good analogy.

No folks, this article was not tossed out to play up or play down gold.
Nowhere did I say this was 100% truth. What is the basic point is that to me it sort of substantiates what the big picture has been over the past 90 years. Or at least what I have seen happening over the past 3 decades and not been able to really get a handle as to why. The wealth of our country (and the world) has been flowing to the bankers. And this is exactly what our framers feared and tried to avoid when they broke away from the same type of tax tyranny. Yes the preachers and educators was on the comical side, but as an overview, I can see why we are where we are today. And up to now, had never really seen this other point of view. Some of the quotes from statesman and intellectuals were interesting also.
Place this next to the same type of one way view that the CNN talking heads spew forth.


roadrunner

roadrunner

The defaulting on 30 year T-bonds is also quite telling. The interest rate was 9.125% and as of May 2004, interest for bondholders ceases. As I said in a previous thread, this saves our govt the equivalent of 2 hours on the national debt clock. For such a small amount, the act of defaulting will do more damage than the $$ saved. And of course, we print the $$ to pay off this small debt.

roadrunner

roadrunner

Andy, I don't think the article had much a problem with the FED itself as it did with the larger banks / financial houses we have created since. JP Morgan would be the largest of the major ones.
They control something like $30 TRILLION dollars in derivatives.

The article supported the printing of money to support the country's exchange systems. Dollardude must have skipped that part. The issue was that we don't place the money equivalent of the interest ultimately due into circulation. Frankly, I don't know if that would really help. For the past 10 years we have been dumping huge amounts of currency into the system and magically "wealth" has appeared, for now. The analogy to the poker game explained the bankers perfectly. If the house keeps on pulling out 10% of the pot after every hand, eventually someone goes broke and leaves. Just like businesses. Unless you keep on adding money to the pot. Only the few strongest get left standing while the failures transferred their wealth to the house. It's up to the banks to decide when to add the money to the pot. They didn't do that during the great depression. And you cannot deny that the BANKERS RECEIVED GREAT WEALTH DURING THE DEFAULTS OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION at the expense of the common man. BANKERS AND GOLD STOCKS PROSPERED GREATLY DURING THIS PERIOD. Joe Kennedy made his fortune shorting the US stock market.

It is these banks/financial institutions that have their hands into everything in our lives. They have continued to grow to huge proportions while US manufacturing and other key sectors have slowly decayed. As a country we are close to being essentially just one big money servicing organization for the world. Isn't this the same thing that Jesus taught in the temple concerning the money changers? Wouldn't it be fair to say that the large financial corps are the power behind the country? He who controls the money, controls the country. I don't think the Federal Reserve Banks are the problem, but then again, you never see any news about them and what their role is today. The article does go on to say they have never been audited. And neither has our gold inventory in Fort Knox for many years. Personally, I'd like to know what is still left in "MINE and YOURS" reserves even though DD says this stuff has no role. Yes, I learned at least a few new thoughts from this article.
Now let me go back and pee into that pot of lead, I mean gold.

roadrunner

fishcooker

I found it hilarious that the guy used 14% mortgage interest and 18% car loans!

I couldn't get past the part where he claimed they intentionally make people ill, and need abortions.


PS: Did you know Al Gore's daughter married into the clan that owns the Federal Reserve?

tlhoy

Who really controls the US economy?
The answer to this is simple! YOU DO!
By spending, saving, investing, borrowing, ect.
Glenn

AValde

Even the many experience folks here think, if a person accumulates gold, that person is going to use gold as a medium of exchange for goods. It is quite wrong. The idea of accumulating gold as wealth is to use portions of it to convert into the actual value of paper money when need arises as gold prices increase with the declining dollar amount.

So may be in the year 2020 when dollar has substantially decreased in its value and is no longer considered the world's reserve currency, OPEC has long moved to Euro by then, I can convert my gold assets to the then dollar amount. If I held the current dollars in a savings acount, I would have got a pidly amount as interest.

The idea of saving gold is not bourne out of pissing off certain people. If you had enough storage space, you can save in cattle, barrels of oil, Orange Juice, Pork rinds. Unfortunately, the shelf life of cattle, oil and pork rinds is limited.

khayse

The analogy of the poker game is false because it assumes a closed system with people just passing
money back and forth. That's not what we do. We borrow $5 from the banker buy some lumber, PERFORM WORK,
and sell the resulting product for $10. Now we are able to pay the banker his 10% and keep the system going
with everyone able to profit.

There are many other problems with the article. Maybe if I have time I'll go through some more.

-KHayse

khayse

Oh, I did learn that the dirty money lenders (could he please just say "Jews", I know he wants to) send our brave
sons overseas to get veneral disease to keep them weak and bring that disease back home to keep the rest
of America weak.

Very enlightening.

-KHayse

wingedliberty

roadrunner:
Thanks for sharing this thought provoking article. Nice thread.

jeffnpcb

All you have to do is read up on the banking reform legislation that passed during Clinton's first term to see what our Congress did to allow banks to strong-arm middle and low income family's. They also gave them the ability with credit card rates that would make a loan shark look like a Altar boy or Boy Scout.

Who runs the country, big banks and big business! No political affilations other than who they want to see in office!

DHeath

Reprinted from totse.com

The incredible power of the Fed over the economy is universally admitted. Some people, especially in the banking and academic communities, even support it. On the other hand, there are those, both in the past and in the present, that speak out against it. One of these men was President John F. Kennedy. His efforts were detailed in Jim Marrs' 1990 book, Crossfire:

Another overlooked aspect of Kennedy's attempt to reform American society involves money.

He moved in this area on June 4, 1963, by signing Executive Order 11,110 which called for the issuance of $4,292,893,815 in United States Notes through the U.S. Treasury rather than the traditional Federal Reserve System. That same day, Kennedy signed a bill changing the backing of one and two dollar bills from silver to gold, adding strength to the weakened U.S. currency.

Kennedy's comptroller of the currency, James J. Saxon, had been at odds with the powerful Federal Reserve Board for some time, encouraging broader investment and lending powers for banks that were not part of the Federal Reserve system. Saxon also had decided that non-Reserve banks could underwrite state and local general obligation bonds, again weakening the dominant Federal Reserve banks.

A number of "Kennedy bills" were indeed issued - the author has a five dollar bill in his possession with the heading "United States Note" - but were quickly withdrawn and destroyed by Lyndon Johnson after Kennedy's death.

According to information from the Library of the Comptroller of the Currency, Executive Order 11,110 remains in effect today, although successive administrations beginning with that of President Lyndon Johnson apparently have simply ignored it and instead returned to the practice of paying interest on Federal Reserve notes.

roadrunner

Khayse, what poker game are you playing in? Our economy has shifted from the one you describe (where real work is done and put back into it) to one where money changes hands, interest paid, and nothing really done, except extract money. This was my point. WE are a service oriented country no more than ever (and getting more so every day). Much of that service is just managing money debt and loans. What real work is done here? Nada. Smoke and mirrors. That's our manufacturing base going overseas and now our IT base. GE has gone from making engines and appliances to servicing loans and collecting interest. Moneylaundering for lack of a better word.

Sure there are lots of inaccuracies and hyperbole in that article....just like in everything else including the state of the union address. Pull out the facts and truth and use them to your advantage. If BANKERS and gold stocks did not profit during the great depresssion then tell me what the real truth was and how things are totally different today. Don't just label everything as
"hilarious" and run away. I want to hear your truth. If I stopped listening to the State of the Union at the first inaccuracy, I'd have turned it off in the first minute and branded anything that followed as "hilarious" also, don't you agree? Name me one economic platform that has not been subject to ridicule on some plane. Therefore one inaccuracy = a flawed and useless plan. ??? And to keep this thread coin related: one inaccurate PCGS grade = totally useless grading system. ???? Good analogy right?

roadrunner

khayse

You can't just print money as you need it. You must issue government bonds and go into debt.
Otherwise you would have runaway inflation as notes became less and less valuable as more and more
of them were printed. If you don't like the government being in debt only vote for people who are willing
to balance the budget no matter what the cost.

-KHayse

roadrunner

When Ron Paul runs for President I will vote for him. Unfortunately you'll still have a congress and senate that will oppose a balanced budget. This whole topic is once again not gold related. It discusses the transfer of wealth and power away from the people to a select few. Even our voting rights have been transferred away.
We don't directly vote for the president and never have. In recent years our rights to propose a candidate for office has been taken from us in the primary phase. The party itself determines who ultimately the candidate for president, not you or me. And it's the media (polls, newspapers, etc) and those in power who once again
decide who gets the good press and who doesn't. I bet it was the little guy who brought Arnold (terminator) to office, huh? And Arnold will see to it that the little guy gets his representation back too.

roadrunner

MrEureka

Brian -

I don't think the article had much a problem with the FED itself as it did with the larger banks / financial houses we have created since.

Actually, the writer seems to think that the conspirators created the Fed as part of their master plan to enslave the (seemingly few) groups of citizens that were not part of the conspiracy. Also, note that "we" did not create the banks. Bankers did. That's their job, after all.


They control something like $30 TRILLION dollars in derivatives.

Is there something dishonest about that that I'm not seeing?

For the past 10 years we have been dumping huge amounts of currency into the system and magically "wealth" has appeared, for now.

I'm going to oversimplify, but look at it this way. The increase in the money supply was intentional, the purpose being to allow stability in the prices of increasingly abundant goods. (The alternative was deflation.) Those things that have had fixed or relatively fixed supplies have been increasing in price to keep up with the money supply. Hence, the blazing markets for real estate and (thankfully) rare coins.

It's up to the banks to decide when to add the money to the pot. They didn't do that during the great depression.

It is now widely understood that the Fed screwed up during the depression by keeping money too tight. Increased tax rates didn't help either. But that doesn't mean that there was a widespread conspiracy to steal people's homes and farms. As a group, did banks thrive on this situation? I doubt it. Many went bust. But the surviving banks gained market share and probably benefited in the long run. Not because of their alleged conspiracy, but because they made some good decisions in dealing with a difficult business environment.

Joe Kennedy made his fortune shorting the US stock market.

How unpatriotic! Seriously, though, how can you blame someone for making a smart bet?


That's it for now. See ya.

nwcs

It's a little known fact that I run the US economy. I just disguise myself as a guy from Tennessee who develops software for a living. In fact, Alan Greenspan is my cousin. I'm descended from the Rothchilds. I'm the one who knows the real purpose for the mars rovers: to search for diamonds for Haliburton...

roadrunner

There's nothing "wrong" with the $30 TRILL in derivatives that JP Morgan is tied up in. Derivatives do no useful work or create jobs or wealth. It would take more than the dream team to figure out what the links are to all these so-called investments. I just find it hard to swallow the whole risk-aversion schemes intricately linked to interest rates, that will likely end up in the laps of you and me. That's the patriotic way. The world's financial soundness is supported by the $100 TRILLION derivative structure. Something that is totally transparent and unregulated. Now that's scary.

roadrunner

MrEureka

For those concerned about derivatives, check this out. Please.

roadrunner

Andy, I'll have to sit down and digest those 10 "myths" later when I have more time today. I would feel a lot better about them if it weren't a FED Reserve banker who was touting the benefits of said derivatives. Now if Warren Buffet or the CEO of another major corp has problems with them, then I take that opinion with a little more weight. Of course old Warren is credited with calling derivatives, "financial sewage." Jim Sinclair takes that a step further. The bankers of course love them. And when Warren does something out of character, like pass on buying stocks, or starts buying foreign currencies, you have to respect what he is doing. If he calls the derivatives junk, he has to have some insight beyond what I can see.

The total derivative notional value is usually agreed to be around $130-160 TRILLION dollars. I don't think that compares very well with the low-end #'s given by the FED bank VP. The truth is somewhere in between. $100 TRILL is a lot to swallow. Even the banks don't know the total amount when you add it all up. Nor would they ever publish the correct numbers. Sort of like stating that 150,000 jobs will be created in Dec and then stating you were only off by 99%.

Good reference from the other side....and worthwhile reading. Thanks Andy.

roadrunner

hetman

The fractional reserve banking system itself isn't at all fair. What would happen if everybody wanted to withdraw their cash at the same time??? Think about it; the money simply ain't there. That by itself means there's something fishy going on. The system's bound to collapse at some point.

SportsModerator

Hetman

Nonsense!

They'll just print more!

The time to panic is when they run out of ink

sumner1984

Gold Coin is true wealth. It is dead money that you cant spend, thats the whole point of buying gold coins today.So I dont spend and give my wealth away for goods or services that I deam worthless. Its my way of saying I reject contemporary america and its economy. Why would I want to spend and circulate money and make some one else richer? by puting some of my money in gold coins, I am keeping it out of circulation. a form of economic terrorism !!!weather it makes a difference or not, it makes me feel better. and if every one in america would do the same, things in america would change for the better.but sadly it wont. Now I understand I have to buy the coin so in a sense i am making the coin dealer richer, not true, it is mearly an exchange of currency , not a purchase. The gold coin can besold for what ever the price of gold is at the moment. it is a liquid commodity. unlike goods and services you aquire in the american consumer based economy.

MrEureka

The fractional reserve banking system itself isn't at all fair. What would happen if everybody wanted to withdraw their cash at the same time??? Think about it; the money simply ain't there. That by itself means there's something fishy going on. The system's bound to collapse at some point.

The Fed's always there for the banks as the "lender of last resort". There are a lot of financial risks in this world, but the last thing you need to worry about is a bank run.

hetman

Good point, Mr. SportsModerator! I should have thought of that.

Mr. Sumner, it's not terrorism to save money!! Whatever happened to the old fashioned ethics of working and saving? Today it's all about spending and borrowing, not saving. What nonsense.

SportsModerator

Kinda hard to have a run if the banks are closed for an indeterminate time as FDR did in 1933.

hetman

Mr. Eureka, fine, but that's almost a guarantee of inflation. Why keep money in the banks in the first place? Besides, it's not fair for banks to have so much more leverage than other businesses or people. What if I were a multi-billionaire and wanted to open up my own bank? Without government permission, I couldn't do it. I could still lend privately, but I wouldn't enjoy the tremendous leverage that fractional reserve banking affords the official lenders (banks). To put it another way, banks have much more power and influence than other businesses by virtue of the fractional reserve banking system; they are allowed to make loans and investments of many times the amount of money that's deposited in their banks. Is that fair?

hetman

Mr. SportsModerator, that's true. In fact, if history repeats itself, you won't be allowed to visit your bank even to get out the gold from your safe deposit box without secret service officials to make sure you don't have gold. In fact, this brings up the point about owning gold; it can be taken away again if the governent says so. Is that fair?

I know, my father always told me "life ain't fair."

MrEureka

Kinda hard to have a run if the banks are closed for an indeterminate time as FDR did in 1933.

FDR closed the banks AFTER the runs began. Regardless, modern era runs will be on the investment markets, not on banks. We've had some nice previews - the 1987 stock market plunge was a good one - but sooner or later there will be much bigger problems. Doesn't mean I'm in the least bit bearish on stocks, but markets will be markets.

itsnotjustme

<< <i>The defaulting on 30 year T-bonds is also quite telling. The interest rate was 9.125% and as of May 2004, interest for bondholders ceases. >>

The US Government did not default on a bond! They acted in accordance with the rules the bonds are issued under. Why continue to pay 9% for money that can be borrowed today at roughly one third that rate? And it's a call, not a default. Here's a link to info on the call Link

sumner1984

This is what it has come too. Gold coin or even silver coins are the only way I can keep myself out of stores like Best Buys and other retail stores that sell items that only make you feel good for the moment and are literally valueless the next year.There has to be a way to save money, puting money in the bank dont work because you can still spend it.So gold IS THE ONLY SOLUTION to have some wealth and pride.

hetman

Mr. Sumner, that's an interesting reason for buying coins/metals. I seem to do the same thing myself. And I don't have any money left over to buy consumer goods.

MrEureka

banks have much more power and influence than other businesses by virtue of the fractional reserve banking system; they are allowed to make loans and investments of many times the amount of money that's deposited in their banks. Is that fair?

Sure it's fair. Anyone that thinks owning a bank is such a great deal can buy stock in a bank.

roadrunner

Gold bullion could be subject to confiscation again just as they did in the 1930's. The govt would pay you their going rate on the books which I think is around $34/ounce. What a deal. They did allow numismatic gold to escape and as currently interpreted by the IRS, numismatic gold carries a 15% or greater premium to bullion. Therefore my gold coin of choice is the $20 Saint or Lib rather than eagles, maple leafs, and kruggerands.

Gold stocks may not fare as well either as what good is a paper certificate if things get tough?

It just seems like we are starting to see the fruits of 90 years of currency abuse getting to the point where it cannot be controlled or manipulated any longer. All the stops have been pulled out to date.
The world has played along in our currency game since 1944. Another game may be taking its place if we don't do the patriotic thing and resolve it now. But I don't see any sign of reform.

roadrunner

relayer

Everybody knows it's the Stonecutters




Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs the cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscars night?
We do! We do!

MrEureka

Another game may be taking its place if we don't do the patriotic thing and resolve it now.

Brian - I'm all for patriotism. How would you suggest we "resolve" the problem?