Anyone bid rig on ebay?

Futureman · January 22, 2004 9:59AM

There are a lot of similar cards that I often find myself going up against the same bidder. S/he usually puts a bid in early, then adjusts accordingly. I snipe almost always unless there's no way for me to be at my computer when it ends. (I refuse to use a sniping service. I consider sniping an art and refuse to let anyone/thing else do it for me.)

The cards I'm after are a set, there will almost surely be another example listed in every case. This bidder keeps going higher and higher on each card though. If s/he doesn't get the first one, then the bid on the second is higher, if that bid doesn't win the second then the bid on the third is higher, etc. It usually works for me, because once the other ebayer gets the card, that's one less bidder I have to compete against for the next example. In this case, it would benefit the other bidder if we had some kind of deal worked out so that I wasn't running up the price if I wasn't going to win anyway. (Though it is somewhat gratifying to know that the ebayer will have $X less to outbid you the next time, especially when they've beaten you in the past. Revenge is a dish best served cold.)

There's another guy that bids on some proline autographs. S/he always snipes them, and always for the same amount. So far I haven't bid more than the guy's fixed snipe as a matter of principle. I figure if I could just have one then he could have all the rest, without me putting in a bid to drive his final price up by $15-$20.

The competition is an aspect of ebay that makes bidding fun. Especially when you see the same people over and over, it really does turn into a competition. Anyway, I was wondering what other people thought about this. If someone contacted you proposing some kind of bid rigging scheme what would you do? Is it against ebay rules? Just curious.

PlayBall · January 22, 2004 10:18AM

<< If someone contacted you proposing some kind of bid rigging scheme what would you do? >>

I'd do it every day and twice on Sunday's. At the present, I'm in contact with another bidder that I'm familiar with to discuss our "strategy" for auctions ending next week. I'm sure this doesn't make sellers happy, but I doubt it's against E-Bay rules. I'm on a limited budget, as is the other bidder, so we have come to an agreement not to hurt each other's pocketbook if we don't have to. This occurs on about 5% of the total auctions I bid on, so by no means can/do I do this across the board.

Tipem · January 22, 2004 11:08AM

I had a bidder that I was always bidding against also.I finally contacted him and we now contact each other to see what the other one is doing.We usually take turns on the cards that we both want.I am sure that it has saved both of us a great deal of money.It turns out that he is a set registry participant and we have become pretty good friends.I would recommend doing this with anyone that you seem to be constantly butting heads with.If they are a decent person,they will see the advantages to both people.

Vic

carewfan4life · January 22, 2004 11:19AM

Bid what you want to bid, and leave it at that. If you think you are going to get outbid, bid higher. I have made ridiculous bids on cards to win them for my Carew collection. But even i have my limits. And i always include shipping into my bids. Just be careful if you start getting "second chance" notices. It usually means you've been shilled.

Griffins · January 22, 2004 2:23PM

I've done this on virtually every set I've worked on. It keeps things from getting nuts, and I've met some of my best friends in the hobby that way. One of the nice things about starting a new set is getting to meet a whole new group of collectors working on that set. I don't think there is anything wrong with this practice, it has always proven mutually beneficial, and I would encourage others to consider it.

highend · January 22, 2004 2:56PM

the idea of bid rigging as described in the above posts, sounds kind of like collusion..... in the real world it is illegal. in the EBAY world i'm sure its fine, even if it wasn't , EBAY probably wouldn't take any action. in either scenerio it's very tough to prove. i'm not a dealer so i have no strong opinion on this practice. for a particular auction i'll usually put my high bid in on the day it ends. a while back, i remember being continuously outbid (always way above SMR) by one bidder on high end 71 b.b. it was frustrating so i did a bidder search and bid on everything he had bids on.....and i lost everyone of them. it never ceases to amaze me that the human condition can be so fickle.

SUPERPUNK813 · January 22, 2004 8:12PM

"If someone contacted you proposing some kind of bid rigging scheme what would you do? Just curious. "

I've done this in the past when working on set's but for me it's been hard to find people to work with. Some people are cool with it but i've contacted at least three people that said "no thanks" to my offer so then the bidding war was on.

Paul.

Basilone · January 22, 2004 10:47PM

I say let the highest bid win.

If you and your buddy come up with a plan...whats to stop some 3rd party rogue bidder coming in and taking the item from the both of you?

BigKidAtHeart · January 22, 2004 11:45PM

<< (I refuse to use a sniping service. I consider sniping an art and refuse to let anyone/thing else do it for me.) >>

What kind of artsy fartsy craap is that?!

I mean, it is freakin EBAY not some art competition!
There are no Points awarded for style or integrity.
It is just a place to buy and sell.

Buy what you like
dont buy what you dont like.

Bid if you want
dont bid if you dont want.

BUT DO NOT TAKE YOURSELF SO FREAKIN SERIOUS!
It is JUST Ebay!

gemint · January 23, 2004 12:30AM

I don't like bid rigging. As far as I'm concerned, it's no different than sellers shill bidding their items to drive up the price. If you bid rig, don't complain if you learn a seller has shilled you.

Tipem · January 23, 2004 7:13AM

Gemint,

Explain the difference is someone bidding on their own cards and two friends agreeing to let one or the other buy the card without both driving up the price.Not trying to be antagonistic,just trying to understand your position.

Vic

Basilone,

You are right in reference to those rogue bidders.I hate em!!!

Vic

theBobs · January 23, 2004 7:45AM

<< it's no different than sellers shill bidding their items to drive up the price. >>

Assuming someone bids to win on every card on ebay that they wanted.

But, people decide not to bid for all sorts of reasons (cash, competing priorities, hopes for a better deal, don't like the scan, forget to bid, etc). If someone chooses not to bid for all of those reasons, why can't someone choose not to bid against a friend?

I don't recall any specific agreements I have made with someone about bidding. But I know what cards some of my friends need, and have chosen not to bid on those cards at times. Is that wrong?

I have also chosen not to bid on cards that I need regardless of whoever might also bid. Is that wrong?

Another scenario. One set that I build has a bidder that goes to 3 or 4 times the market value of a card he needs. If I need the card as well, but I know he will outbid me -- what do I do?

Should I bid like normal because it's wrong not to bid? Or should I not bid at all because I am basically running the price up on him?

gemint · January 23, 2004 9:10AM

Don't get me wrong, I'm solidly against a seller bidding on their own card. I may have been a bit too harsh comparing the two equally. I guess if you have a close friend who needs a card you are bidding on and you decide not to bankrupt each other, that's not nearly as bad as shill bidding. I guess I'm more referring to gentlemen's agreement between two people competing to build the same set or blind soliciting between people who don't know each other to hold bidding down. If it is artificially keeping the price low, then I'm against it.

For example, if all the major 1969 set builders colluded to take turns bidding on cards, that would artificially depress the market for those cards since the demand should naturally be higher if 5 or more people want a card but only one of them bids on it.

Just my opinion.

theBobs · January 23, 2004 9:21AM

<< For example, if all the major 1969 set builders colluded to take turns bidding on cards, that would artificially depress the market for those cards since the demand should naturally be higher if 5 or more people want a card but only one of them bids on it. >>

Thanks for clarifying. And I agree.

There's a world of difference in staying out of a friend's way and actively forming a collusion syndicate with multiple people who's only reason for working together is to keep prices down.

SUPERPUNK813 · January 23, 2004 11:15AM

For example, if all the major 1969 set builders colluded to take turns bidding on cards, that would artificially depress the market for those cards since the demand should naturally be higher if 5 or more people want a card but only one of them bids on it.

I do agree with this. I was just talking about me and maybe one other person.

Paul.

Tipem · January 23, 2004 11:18AM

Gemint,

Thanks for the candid reply.I

you.We are on the same page.To artificially hold down the prices is morally wrong as is ending an auction early(OOPS,that has been beat to death already)

(That last dart was NOT meant for you!!! Those who read this post know if it was meant for them

)

Gemint,

Seriously,

Thanks for the reply and I agree with you completely.

Vic

Boopotts · January 23, 2004 1:08PM

I still haven't figured out why the majority of the participants on this board have no problem bid rigging, but display such a venomous distaste towards shill bidding.

wolfbear · January 23, 2004 1:42PM

Boopotts - the difference is simple really.

shill bidding COSTS them money,
and bid rigging SAVES them money.

Folks can rationalize just about anything if it saves them a buck.
By the way, I too participate in so called bid rigging on rare occasions,
but I think it's wrong when other people do it.

sagard · January 23, 2004 2:03PM

If it catches on with enough people, it could lead to legitimate private auctions. That would be a drag. It is very easy to just disrequard private auctions now.

pc · January 23, 2004 2:50PM

i think it is fine if people agree on which cards
to buy since the true market value will be there
if more than two people have an interest in an item.
if the same two people are chasing the same cards
it gets silly to pay well above market price.to protect
myself when selling i simply start auctions at levels i can
swallow.sellers need to know what is hot and what isn't.
without the homework/knowledge sellers get what they
deserve.

Futureman · January 24, 2004 4:18AM

Looks like I got my legalese mixed up; collusion is probably the more fitting term.

I can understand that taking steps to depress an entire market would be seen (by some) as unethical. I'm not so much talking about that. It could be done with sets, but as long as I wait until the other guy gets his first, then I can usually take my pick of which card I want for much less than the other guy paid. The other bidder I'm talking about goes after every version of the pro line autograph and if he would allow me to win one (that's all I want) then he wouldn't have to compete with me anymore. I would have thought he would figure it out, but maybe not, so I was wondering if maybe I should contact him. I suppose he will miss one eventually and I'll be able to pick it up.

Xena6969 · January 25, 2004 8:51AM

I am currently working the 1970 topps set in psa 8 form, right now I am about 25 percent complete and have gotten nearly all of them off of ebay I started this set in October of 2003 from that time I noticed about 4 or 5 bidders that are also consistently bidding on these cards as well. I have a set price in mind for every card I bid on and I put in that bid, if I get outbid oh well a majority of the time it will come up again I cant afford to buy all the cards from the set at once anyways so I go with the best deals I can get I have had a few cards that I put in the same bid in for 3 different times and was outbid the 4th time it came up I won the auction and got it at the price I was originally willing to pay and I believe that it will go that way for 80 percent of the set or better I also have seen trends in what the other bidders will bid, one in particular I used to bid on auctions s/he would already have bids on and my bid was never high enough so when I look at an auction that this individual has a bid on I leave it alone it is just a waste of my time to put in a bid on the card I know I wont win, do I know this person personally? No but I do know s/he is a set registrant and once s/he has the card s/he wont bid on another one. does it save them money for me not to bid on a card that he has a bid that is at a price lower than what I am willing to bid? yes. is this rigging to some degree I suppose but there is no mutual agreement between myself and the other bidder. if someone that I am not familiar with has a bid on a card I need and is below the price I am willing to pay then yes I do put in my bid. Patience is very rewarding on the wallet when it comes to getting cards I believe.

Virtualizard · January 25, 2004 11:18AM

<< Bid what you want to bid, and leave it at that. If you think you are going to get outbid, bid higher. I have made ridiculous bids on cards to win them for my Carew collection. But even i have my limits. And i always include shipping into my bids. Just be careful if you start getting "second chance" notices. It usually means you've been shilled. >>

Marc,

It's good to see you finally post here. Welcome to the message board. Hopefully we won't bump heads too often on ebay, but I agree, bid what you are willing to pay. I'm curious to see what happens with the Carew Master set in the next few months.

JEB.

Anyone bid rig on ebay?

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