Attribution Lesson & Giveaway

satootoko

Let's get down and dirty and explain how you know what countries these coins belong to. The best and most complete description of each coin (as judged solely by me) will get the explainer one of my multiple examples of the top one.

15x15mm, copper, with what appears to be a Turkish toughra on it, and possibly the AH date 1332 in the space at the top right:



21mm, aluminum, from some Soviet-related country (note the hammer & sickle below a star):



I really, really, really am looking for help in learning how to figure out where specific coins are from.

Tag line edited to get more attention.

JamminJ

Here's how I found the second one to be a Laos 10 Att coin, KM22.

1. The Hammer and Sickle on the obverse told me it's a communist county.
2. The odd looking alphabet said it was not the usual Russian or Eastern Europe coin, probably Middle Eastern or Asian.
3. The date of 1980 says it cannot be one of the former Soviet republics like Krygistan, Kadzakstan, etc. as the Soviet Union used uniform coins throughout.
4. With this in mind I first tried Afghanistan. Since the Soviets invaded in 1979 maybe they set up a puppet state that issued their own coin. They did, but this coin does not belong to them.
5. I looked a bit more closely at the lettering and it looked vaguely like that on Thailand coins, so I began to think who was communist near Thailand in 1980.
6. Definitely not Vietnam as they use a Western alphabet.
7. Tried Cambodia but no dice there either.
8. Next stop was Laos and voila! The coin has been identified.

There you have it, attribution in eight easy steps (your results may vary)!

I'll get to work on the other one now.
-JamminJ

Edited for grammar.

farthing

I see JamminJ has already given you a more complete answer on coin 2 than I could (the system also lost my first response)

The style of lettering is not correct for Eastern Europe - Very much SE Asia in feel with all the round characters - reminded me of Thailand coins.
Thailand was not possible because no portrait of the King.
Tried Cambodia - Kampuchea. I knew they used the Soviet wreath during this period. Also, a short country listing in Krause to look through. Not found.
Moved on to Laos - Bingo!

JamminJ

I don't think I can help with the seond coin, but might do better with the coin in hand. Here's how I got stuck:

1. I agree the toughra places this somewhere within the vast Ottoman empire.
2. The coin looks very, very crude so I have some doubt about the date. Since AH1332=1913AD, and there we're no major wars going on that year, I would expect the coins to be of better quality. If I had the coin in hand I'd take a glass to it and try some other combinations of the date.
3. If the date didn't reveal anything I would then try to match up some of the other lettering with known mint locations or mintmasters, listed in the front of the Krause.
4. I'd also look for coins with ivy or oak looking leaves on the back as these are not universal on Ottoman coins.
5. Tunisia issued some vaguely similar square copper coins so I'd start the new search with additional information there.

If you can post a detail of the area with the date and of the lettering I'll try again.

-JamminJ

1960NYGiants

OK - I'll try the first one:

1. First impression as stated was Turkish - nothing
2. Tried neighboring countries - Syria, Iraq, Iran, Armenia - nothing
3. Thought of what other middle east countries have large Islamic pops - Pakistan, Afghanistan - nope
4. Took a WAG of Indian States - bam! - Bahawalpur, Paisa Y#8, AH1342 or 1343 (1923-1925), Gd 7.50, VG 11.00, F 15.00, VF 20.00 - page 1081 of 2003 Krause. According to Krause, Bahawlpur was part of Afghanistan (hence the related toughra symbol).

Gene

JamminJ

I'm impressed 1960NYGiants!

I guess a lesson for me to learn is crude can mean primative in addition to old.

-JamminJ

canadiancoinguy

The second one has characters very simular to those to Mynamar, so I would had looked in and around there.

farthing

Interesting. On the first one I did think first of all that it was from one of the Indian States due to the square shape but discounted them because of the toughra symbol. I did not think any of the states were part of the Ottoman empire.
I tried Egypt first, then Turkey, followed by Afganistan and Algeria. No luck of course.
Should have stuck with my first impression based on shape.
The Stars and Fauna shapes also would be a key - Never seen them used before on the usual toughra suspects.

1jester

Here's my foolproof way of attributing these coins:

1) Read all posts.
2) Agree with whomever seems most endarkened.


Works most every time!!!

oldshep

After exhausting research I agree with 1jester yep no doubt.
Shep

satootoko

Thanks to all, and especially JamminJ and 1960NYGiants, who need to PM me their addresses so I can ship out their Bahawalpur Paisas.

The interesting thing about the date is that the characters have more characteristics of the Arabic-Turkish alphabet than the Indian Sanskrit, as shown in Krause, with some characteristics of a couple of other alphabets.

JamminJ

Thanks for the fun contest and the cool prize!

PM sent,
-JamminJ