High Grade IKE's how to find them Raw?
Datentype
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Can one find high grade non-silver IKE's in mint sets? I know this has been visted before but are there any years that have a chance for ms67 other than 1976-Denver mint sets?
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I believe will make MS-67 or at least they're as good as I've seen. The '74 is not
findable probably and the '73's are elusive. The gem 74-D, 76-D t I, '77 and '78
are very gemmy in about 1 set in 250-300 original sets. The '76-p&D t II, '77-D,
and '78-D are much more common at about 1 in a hundred to 1 in two hundred.
The '73's and '74-P do come pretty nice but I don't see them in as high a grade.
It does seem that the sets are starting to get picked over and it seems probable
that many of these coins have been destroyed over the years even after being
discovered and removed from the sets. The market was very thin until the mid-'90's
and the coins were likely to change hands at very low prices and not always taken
care of. For years these sets traded at less than face value so many people just
spent the coins or took them to the bank.
While many of the mint sets are not overly picked over for the smaller denominations
they do tend to be picked over for the larger ones. Today to get 100 original sets it
would require about 300 sets on the wholesale market or four hundred retail sets.
I believe there are a few '73 Ikes graded MS-67 and these only appeared in the sets.
I may have been too late to the party on this date as I saw few until the early '90's.
Mike
How could these sets, wholesale or otherwise, ever have traded commonly
for less than face value? I'm guessing we are talking just a few cents less
here, but that really seems insane!
I can understand the bids dropping to less than face if the sets were simply
unwanted, but were there really any sellers at those prices?
Ken
It took real effort to dismantle them and get them to the bank and finding quantities
sufficient to warrant the effort was difficult. Many dealers who did understand the sit-
uation just cut the coins out and put them in the cash register without regard to
grades. There was no interest in them and demand was nearly non existent. While
bids bottomed out at about 90%+ of face value many dealers just bought things like
this at 80% of bid. It wasn't too unusual to see these priced for sale in display cases
at less than face!
Most people who came into the shops to sell these were aware beforhand that they
brought very little money so usually accepted the offers. Even the '73 set dropped
as low as about $5 or 50% over face. The '80 set bid as low as $4.30 and contains
$4.82 face value.
This situation persisted for years. Many more of the sets would have been destroyed
if there were even enough interest to spend them. Mint and proof sets were also the
first things dealers would want to wholesale when they needed to raise cash. Many of
these sets never even made it to the wholesalers who tended to dismantle them to
build denominational sets.
With all due respect to Cladking, 1 in 100 mint sets yielding a MS67 coin is not even close. 1 in 1000 is not close either, these coins are RARE!!!!! I have searched thousands of mint sets (many from unopened boxes of 5) and only made 2 or 3 MS66 coins. The best I have ever done was 8 MS66 1972D from one $1,000 bag (with a bunch of MS65’s).
There are no PCGS MS67 Philly Ike’s from 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, and 1976 T1.
MS67’s from the Philly mint;
8 1976 T2’s
4 1977 P
5 1978 P
MS67’s from the Denver mint;
11 1971D,
2 1972D,
8 1973D,
6 1974D,
2 1976D T1
22 1976D T2
4 1977D
1 1978D
The 1971 & 1972 coins were not put into mint sets (only bags and rolls). The 1973 coins were only from mint sets (not released for circulation). It is anyone’s guess where the others came from. Whatever the answer these coins are not common. If they were in one every 200-300 mint sets there would be another one made every other day (as lots of people are looking for them now) and the populations just do not coincide with this.
Happy hunting!
Later,
Paul B. Gunsallus
Later, Paul.
<< <i>It is really tough to find MS67 Ike’s anywhere!! With a grand total of 73 MS67 clad coins ever graded by PCGS almost 30 years since they were last minted, I think this is pretty obvious. And with the fact that the coins are worth $2,000+ for the most common 1976D T2, this is not from a lack of people looking.
>>
Thanks for all the info. As I said my grading is suspect and I really had no way to
compare the coins I've found over the years to the grading standards. This will
help a great deal.
I looked at mint sets seeking quarters for several years in the 1970's before I
saw a gem Ike. Once I found one I did begin seeking them out and found them
more frequently after this.
Perhaps the best ~.5% of coins in mint sets are better described as coins which
stand out. Among these there are also coins which stand out. Depending on the
date it will be 5 to 25%. While mint sets gems may not be as easily found clean
as the coins in rolls, the roll gems will not be as well struck as the mint set coins.
The only number that surprises me on your list is the 78-D. I'd have guessed it
to be about the 3rd or 4th most common. The '74-D looks a little more common
than I'd have guessed.
The coins that Cladking are referring to are probably MS65 quality by PCGS standards. These coins do stand out compared to average MS61-63 coins. It is an exceptional coin that will make PCGS MS66.... and MS67......... A lottery winner......73 graded to date of the over 500 million coins minted.... 1 in 100 million HHHMMM????
That is a lot of coins to look through
<< <i>DRG, I tend to agree with much of what you say but are most of the nice ones found in sets or is there an equal or better chance to find one in a roll? >>
...and this is the question.
My experience with the quarters is limited because of the paltry number of rolls available
and may not apply to the Ikes anyway. Quarter rolls almost never yield any coins which
could be considered even close to gem. Perhaps if one looked at more rolls this would
not hold true, but I quit looking after a while. The rolls are rarely available in any case
though they do constitute fertile ground for finding the many varieties which have been
made in the past 40 years.
I have more experience with MS67 SBA's They mostly came from the $2,000 bags that were available from the mint until 1995. Ofcourse, that is only the 1979 & 1980 coins as the 1981 coins were only available in mint sets. This could also be a case of pure volume. The fact is that it was a lot easier to get a hold of 100,000 SBA dollars from the bags compared to 30,000 mint sets (which do not even include the 1979S).
It seems to be different for every individual coin.
I find it is worthwhile to search both rolls and mint sets as I have found great coins in each. The bottom line is that TOP POP's are not easy to find anywhere. That is what makes it interesting and fun when you do actually find a real GEM!
I have had much better luck in rolls than I have in Mint Sets except for the 1974-P's and of course the 73's.
Trying to make a 66 or 67 Clad Ike can drive one crazey!
WHEN I finally DO make a 67 Clad Ike....
Gandyjai
The gem coins tend to bunch up a great deal. They'll bunch up in DRG's '72 Ike bag or
in Minneapolis when the mint fills mint set orders by zip code or the few bags with gems
just happen to go there. There are so few modern collectors, perhaps it's possible that
every geographic area hasn't even been spot checked? This can't be the entire explan-
ation to something like the dirth of gem '74's simply because there is no gaurantee that
any given date was even produced. But what about the 78-D's?
Are all these MS-67's solid for the grade? Is it possible that they are even more elusive
than there population would suggest?
In any case it certainly would seem that an Ike with no visable imperfections would be a
fluke.
> But what about the 78-D's?
There are a few (less than 5 as far as I know) very nice 78-D around in PCGS MS66 holders. Some of them should be in 67 holders, IMO, but PCGS is not willing to do so.
> Are all these MS-67's solid for the grade?
No, definitely not. Some of the Ike dollars in 67 holders won't go back to 67 holders if they are submitting as raw coins today. I don't think the PCGS Ike MS67 standards are the same as they had 5 to 7 years ago. Most MS67 were made 5 to 7 years ago.
1979P NR - I have made several MS67's mostly from the $2,000 bags, a couple from rolls. Mint / Souvenir sets have been poor MS66 tops. I bought the MS68 (its quality is fair for the grade). Full Talons are common.
1979P WR - The best I have done is MS66 and they came from a bank bag of $1,000. I have only seen a couple in mint sets or souvenir sets and they have topped out at MS65. I do not know where the MS67's came from (quality of the MS67's I have seen is not great). Full Talons are fairly common.
1979D - I made a couple MS67's from the $2,000 bags. I made several MS67's from a group of bank wrapped rolls, $1,000 face. I have never seen anything better then MS66 in a Mint / Souvenir set, although a few have been close to MS67. MS67 quality tends to be good. Full Talons are difficult to find.
1979S - This coin is not included in the regular mint set. It is found in the Souvenir sets in universally poor condition. All of the MS67's that I made came from $2,000 coin bags. Rolls have been hit and miss, but typical high end is MS66. I bought my MS68 (quality is fair). MS67 quality is hit and miss, some are great some belong in MS66 holders. Full Talons are common (probably more than half).
1980P - Several MS67's from the $2,000 bags. Also I have made a few MS67's from mint sets. One unopened box of five yielded 2 (bunching theory in action). Most mint /souvenir sets top out at MS66. Have only seen a few rolls and they were poor. Bought my MS68 (good quality). Full Talons are fairly common.
1980D - I have only made a couple MS67's. One from a bag of $2,000 the other from the same group of 5 unopened mint sets. Usual mint set quality is MS64-65; Souvenir sets are a little worse. Ft fairly common.
1980S - All of the MS67's that I made came from $2,000 coin bags. Mint/Souvenir set quality is very poor with MS65 being the very high end. Full Talons are rare.
The 1981 coins were only released in mint and souvenir sets. The souvenir sets are of poor quality for all 3 1981 coins.
1981P - I have made only one MS67. It came from a mint set. Most of these coins come with FT.
1981D - I have only made one or two of these in MS67, both from mint sets. All should have FT.
1981S - These are tough!! Most have FT but are in terrible condition. TOP POP is MS66. I have never made one. All should have FT.
1999P - Most of the MS68 coins came from the Souvenir sets. Most TOP POP's have FT, although many of the lower grade coins do not.
1999D - Most of the MS68 coins came from the Souvenir sets. Nearly all of the coins that I have seen have FT.
In general the small bags of SBA's or not worth searching ($25-$100). They have been moved around some much over the years that most coins will grade MS60. The $2,000 bags are not easy to find and when you do they have variable quality. Back when they came directly from the mint they tended to be very good, but now that they have had private owners... It depends on how much they were moved. They are too heavy to move a lot.
The 1981 mint sets are the only good source for the 1981 coins.
The 1999 souvenir sets are the best source for these coins.
The "Full Talon" designation is my own and defines a fully struck SBA$ in my opinion. 6 well defined separate talons should be seen on the reverse eagle. While it is not difficult to find a FT SBA$, it is difficult to find a TOP POP one. Many of the TOP POP's are either of questionable quality or do not have "Full Talons". I have found putting together a set of TOP POP SBA$'s that are of the highest quality and with FT to be quite difficult.
At least she named him Ike!
Gandyjai
at improves my chances (not probabilities) of finding the right coin.
These sources include mint sets, rolls, an occasional bag, and even
single coins carded up in 2x2's (whether they be in stock boxes or
notebook pages.) Then PCGS needs to help out; I have many boxes
of MS-64 coins to show for my battle wounds.
Even original mint-sewn bags are no guarantee of finding MS-66/+
singles. I've had my disappointments looking through bags of
marked-up or dull-lustered coins.
I have not seen an original bag of 1971-P Ike $1's, but I was fort-
unate to purchase an original bag of 1972-P T-3 Ikes back in NOV
2000. I slabbed about 15 PCGS MS-65's from this lot (along with
20 or so MS-64.) I then selected the remaining raw MS-64 singles
(imo) and tubed them up for later, before selling off the balance to
Littleton Coin Co.
All of the MS-65 singles have since been pieced out via Teletrade and
eBay over the course of two years. I still have the raw MS-64's since
I think these coins will be needed by future collectors. I don't mind
keeping raw MS-64 71-P Ikes either.
I wonder how many gem Ikes Littleton Coin Co (LCC) has included in
their BU Ike $1 sets? My friend Rick@a.w.coins slabbed the NICEST
77-P Ike (PCGS MS-66) I've seen and it was from an LCC Ike set.
This coin was very close to MS-67 except for one light tick on the
cheek.
I also wonder what has become of several Gem PCGS Ikes sold over
Teletrade prior to 1999? Back in 1998 I slabbed the first 1972-D Ike
in PCGS MS-67 and sold it on T-T that Fall for $1600. To date, PCGS
has graded only 2 in MS-67 and neither of these coins shows up among
the registry sets. I don't remember specific traits of this coin since
it was among the first of my Ike submissions to PCGS.
I do think PCGS has tightened their grading standards on clad Ikes
and this may explain why the populations rise sparingly on MS-65 &
better examples.
As with finding any nice coin, one needs to "turn over all the rocks"
and look everywhere.
BTW, he has not taken Ikes to the bank for over 5 years now.
Also BTW, to get those 2 MS66 Ikes, I have probably looked at over 2,000 raw Ikes and have held onto a couple hundred nice ones (MS64 to MS65).
I love Ike dollars and all other dollar series !!!
I also love Major Circulation Strike Type Sets, clad Washingtons ('65 to '98) and key date coins !!!!!
If ignorance is bliss, shouldn't we have more happy people ??
So you slabbed the 72-D in MS67. If it is nice and accurately graded, it should be a 10K coin at least today.
Datentype:
You can find a 67 in a mint set, but they are extremely rare. C/N IKE production quality was terrible. You could go through thousands (I have) and not find one. You might not even find a 66. The best bet is to find raw collectors who have great quality sets, and offer to buy them for very premium prices. Presumably these collectors have picked out the best examples through the years. The problem of course is that many of the best raw sets have already been purchased by the specialized IKE dealers (like Jim Barlow). You would have to find those not picked over. A difficult task.
Greg
Thank you for your response to this Ike $1 thread. I always respect
and enjoy your input on this series since you have studied and col-
lected Ike $1's for a long time.
To all Ike $1 enthusiasts:
MS-66/+ Ikes are becoming more difficult to locate raw, but you guys
already know that.