Slater and Napolitano's grades and comments

homerunhall

We have just posted the the grades and scores for the two higest scorers in the grading World Series. The info is on the PCGS home page in the already posted World Series of Grading article. Check it out, it's very interesting.

Note that Slater scored 77 out of 100 and Napolitano scored 75. I have some comments about that, i.e. "Why didn't anyone even get a 'B' or 80%."

For pre-1965 coins PCGS graders agree with the final PCGS grade about 75% of the time. In other words, PCGS graders are "wrong" 25% of the time. So those 25% (or more) of the coins will typically have 3 graders and an example would be one grader at MS66, one grader at MS65, and one grader at MS65. That example coin would then be sealed in a PCGS holder, and then checked for grade again by our verifier, usually PCGS Director of Grading Ron Howard. The coin would then go out as a MS65.

That's how grading works, graders at the highest skill level agree with the PCGS final grade about 75% of the time. That's why we use more than one grader and the consensus method for finalizing the grade...and then a second verification check in the holder as another step to insure quality.

Bottom line...coin grading is not easy. Experts disagree. The PCGS grade is a consensus opinion.

This has been interesting and fun. Hope everyone is enjoying this. Take the test if you have the time and are in the right place. It will be eye-opening and well worth your while.

David

ksteelheader

I'm waiting!!!!!....Ken

MadMonk

C,mon pokey

ksteelheader

Whats taking so long......Did you have to run to the bathroom???..
........Ken

MadMonk

<< <i>Whats taking so long......Did you have to run to the bathroom???..
........Ken >>



He's taking a Baked Lasagna Break!

mgoodm3

Come on, you tease!

Peetie

HRH-

What percentage do the graders agree on post 1965 coins?

Mark

cosmicdebris

How did Cameron do?

DHeath

Wow, they both liked the 14-S $20. It's fascinating that they both missed 10 of the same coins (they agreed on 6 of them). Makes me itchy to participate.

tjkillian

Link to grades

Tom

Russ

<< <i>That's how grading works, graders at the highest skill level agree with the PCGS final grade about 75% of the time. >>



I rarely dip below 75% on my submissions, and almost never miss by more than one point. Does that mean I'm a world-class grader?

Russ, NCNE

CarlWohlforth

Interesting stuff!

Russ, I think you would do super well on the coins you specialize in.

I see there were several modern coins so I'd have some coins that I'd have an opinion on. From now on I'm covering the grade and testing myself on as many coins as I can. I know I have several areas that need loads of work...

Russ

There are a couple of them that I'm not understanding:

9 1961 25C PR64 PR64 PF67 -2.5

Shouldn't that be "-3"?

25 1914-S $20 MS63 MS65 -2.5 MS66 -2.5

And, shouldn't that be "-2" and "-3"?

Russ, NCNE

tjkillian

Russ,

No, the most you can loose on a mis-grade is 2.5 points (plus more for mis-attribution).

Tom

clackamas

I would sure be interested in seeing the grade reports on a coin with the cert verification. e.g. MS66, MS67, MS66 - grade MS66, etc. It would give a good indication if a coin was PQ or not (in PCGS's eyes).

Brian

tradedollarnut

I'd like to buy the saint that PCGS graded MS63 but the two winners called MS65 and MS66 respectively..... at bluesheet, please.

CarlWohlforth

<< <i>I'd like to buy the saint that PCGS graded MS63 but the two winners called MS65 and MS66 respectively..... at bluesheet, please. >>



Me too! I'd even go Greysheet

CalGold

Interesting that both of the top scoring dealers gave the "wrong" grade 50% of the time. I am not sure if that shows that not even the best are as "good" as PCGS or that people in the market have differents concepts of grade.

I wonder what kind of conclusions might be drawn if one could analyze the grading of say the five or six top contestants. Would there be strong corrleations in which the contestants consistently gave particular coins the same "wrong" grade? If so, what conclusion should be drawn, if any.

CG

tjkillian

Those are my feelings too, perhaps the coins are NOT correctly graded. Of course the contest was to tell the PCGS grade, not the grade of the coin.

Tom

Russ

<< <i>I'd like to buy the saint that PCGS graded MS63 but the two winners called MS65 and MS66 respectively..... at bluesheet, please. >>



TDN,

OOH! OOH! Read this!

You can buy any coin you want. We don't need them any more.

All grading test coins (except the counterfeit 1927-D $20) are for sale. We don't need them anymore.

PM Hall quick, before somebody else does!

Russ, NCNE

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

David

Did I hear you correctly that your selling the artificially frosted Mercury dime? For a quarter

stewart

RGL

On the downside, you have to pay full CU price ... or, if they are feeling charitable, full DHRC price ...

homerunhall

Almost all coins available...the PCGS price is cheap...our cost, i.e. what we paid dealers for the coins.

Also, we'll put "PCGS World Series coin" on the holde if you want. First shot to grading test participants. Priority to those with the lowest scores!?!?!?!?!?!

Email me at dh@collectors.com.

David

nucklehead

<< <i>Almost all coins available...the PCGS price is cheap...our cost, i.e. what we paid dealers for the coins.

Also, we'll put "PCGS World Series coin" on the holde if you want. First shot to grading test participants. Priority to those with the lowest scores!?!?!?!?!?!

Email me at dh@collectors.com.

David >>

Hmmmm,that would be interesting to own one of those.

dorkkarl

i do'nt suppose the 1916-d merc in this thread was in the world series of grading was it? if so, someone would clearly be down on strikes.

K S

BASEagle

<< <i>In other words, PCGS graders are "wrong" 25% of the time. >>




This is a hell of an admission from the PCGS CEO.

Does this whole slabbing business strike anyone else as fraudulent?

What if you bought a car that didn't crank 25% of the time? What if the electricity at your house was out 25% of the time?



<< <i>In other words, PCGS graders are "wrong" 25% of the time. >>




Gotta rethink my participation in coin collecting.

Mike

Barry

Just rethink WHAT you collect. If you're not chasing high MS grades, and you're not buying coins on the high side of a price break, a point here or there really doesn't matter

IndianHeadMan

the graders are wrong 25% of the time hence 3 graders for each coin and a verifier. Thus lowering the percentage to 5-10%

homerunhall

BAS...You not getting what I said. I said individual PCGS graders disagree with the final PCGS grade on pre-1965 coins approximately 25% of the time. I did not say that the final PCGS grade is wrong 25% of the time.

The reality is that for every coin that goes out the door at PCGS, at least two PCGS graders agree with the final grade.

David

mgoodm3

Grading is subjective, you can't expect it to be 100% effective. All you can ask for is they are consistently close. Running your car is objective, it either does or it doesn't, If you've got the right combo of circumstances your car should start every time.

pmh1nic

I appreciate PCGS having this "World Series of Grading." I think the results are just another strong indication of what the grade services do and what one should expect when buying a coin certified by one of the major grading services. In my opinion what I expect is:

1. 100% accuracy regarding authenticity
2. 98% accuracy in spotting alterations, contamination, harsh cleaning, AT, etc.
3. ~ 90% accuracy as far as consistently grading a coin to within one point of the "theortical" absolutely accurate grade. Since there is no absolute standard as far as assigning a grade and the process of grading is somewhat subjective I guess the best we can expect is consistent in grading to within one point.

If you consider that the dealers in the vast majority of cases missed the PCGS grade by only one point they pretty much satisfy my requirements for what I'm looking for when a coin has been characterized as being "professionally" graded.