Some Far East coin ID help

ColinCMR

The first coin is pretty worn and is unifaced.
Diameter = 2.4cm


The second, I'm not even sure is a coin. The orientation could be off, I just went with the whole drilled in it.
Diameter = 2.2cm



Thanks for any help!

dingding

the first is a Japanese coin (KM4.2), the other side shows waves. the second is a medal (maybe for the birthday of someone).

satootoko

The second one is a Korean medal or badge, not a coin.

The first one, depending on what is on the reverse, may be any one of a dozen or more Chinese, Korean or Japanese "cash" coins. Let's see a picture of the reverse, and maybe we can pin it down.

Spinynorman

From what I remember of it, it looks very similar to one I have (can't find it right now) from the early to mid 1600s Japan. Mine is also uniface. I think it was KM1 (which set me off on that tangent...).

newbiecollector

I have several coins the have that general look. I find it very difficult (or impossible) to identify them.

If you want some additional info on dating and identifying Japanese coins go to my site, clik on misc links and find the Japanese dating.

santelia

santelia

Oops - ignore the empty one above.
It is a Kanei-Tsuho Japanese copper coin, with a bunch of varities minted from 1626-1863. If the reverse has "waves" it is called "Nami" cash (for waves). Look closely at the top of the reverse. If there is no Japanese character in the waves, it was minted in either 1760 or 1769. If you count each individual arc as a wave, there is one type with 21 waves (1760) and one with 11 waves (1769). There were 157 million minted, and I've found these to be very common.

If there is a character in the waves (and there should be 11 waves), or a diagonal stroke downward within the waves, this is a mintmark. My reference lists 7 different mintmark characters. These are all dated 1866. If it does, send me a scan and I can tell you which mint.

The reference book I use is Japanese Coinage by Norman JAcobs and Cornelius Vermeule (1953). It is out of print, but fairly easy to get. Search at www.abebooks.com (try keywords japan and coin) if interested.

The second appears to be a fairly modern good luck charm. The symbol in the center is the yin/yang symbol. The eight symbols around the outside are the Eight Trigrams, with many attributes and meanings. Originally Chinese designs, they are seen on some Korean coins and charms. The lines are "Male", the dashes or broken lines are "Female" (similar to Yin/Yang). The three solid lines are 1, then 2, 3, 4 running clockwise. Then next to 1 is 5 (two solid lines with dashed line underneath) then 6, 7, 8 running counter clockwise. Here's the numbers, with their name, attribute, and image in nature.
1 The Creative strong heaven, sky
2 The Joyous joyful lake
3 The Clinging light giving fire
4 The Arousing inciting movement thunder
5 The Gentle penetrating wind, wood
6 The Abysmal dangerous water
7 Keeping Still resting mountain
8 The Receptive devoted, yielding earth

Probably more than you wanted to know :-)

sumnom

How do we know the second one is Korean?

Spinynorman

I found an old scan of my coin. Looks like the same characters, with some slight variations. The only one I found in the Krause catalogs that's uniface is the Mon C#1.1 ND(1636-56).

historygeek

I know nothing about Japanese coins, but the second medal lacks any Korean characters.

satootoko

<< <i>How do we know the second one is Korean? >>


As Santelia said, the yin-yang symbol and the I-ching trigrams are commonly used in Korea. Check out the flag of the Republic of Korea (South Korea).

BTW Japanese Coinage, both 1st and 2nd Editions, can usually be found on EBay. Recently there was one with an opening bid of under $5. I join in heartily recommending it for anyone with an interest in Japanese coinage, which it covers in some detail from the 5th Century to the date of publication (1953 for the 1st Edition, 1972 for the 2nd), with lots of pictures, especially the cash coins.

sumnom

The trigrams are not exclusively Korean, however.

This is just a wild guess but I think the symbol on the other face (without the trigrams) might be something either related to divination or supernatural protection. I have seen similar designs on talismans meant for protection against ghosts and general ill-fortune used in both Korea and China.

The preceding identification was only a guess. Had this been a real identification....

historygeek

Trust me, this is a very common design and does not mean that the medal is Korean.

sumnom

I trust you!

santelia

I skimmed quickly through one of my references on Chinese charms and didn't see any trigrams. However, many of the contemporary (by this I mean 29th and early 20th c. charms are not well-documented. It could very well be Chinese or Japanese. Check out this site for Chinese charms with trigrams.

BTW, $5 is a steal for that book!

sumnom

I just got an outside opinion that at least narrows down the ID of the second piece. It has been pointed out to me that the Korean yin-yang symbol does not have dots, while the Chinese does. In fact, my source, who is Korean, says she never saw a yin-yang symbol with dots until she was well into her adulthood and took a trip to China.

This doesn't really help that much but I think we probably can rule out this token being Korean.

sumnom

Santelia,

I checked out your link and it leads me to have more confidence that this is Chinese, eight trigrams on one side, magic spell character on the other.

ColinCMR

Thanks for your help everyone.

The first coin has no mintmark on the reverse and no waves. This week I'll try and get to the library to see if there are any Japanese coin books. I think it is brass but there is a good chance that it is copper.

I'm pretty sure it is a C# 1.1

When I had first looked at the second piece i thought it was Chinese and had something to do with divination because of the trigrams. They resemble divination symbols I have encountered before. Thanks for your post santelia.

thanks everyone!