Is John Franco a Hall of Famer?

Gemmy10 · January 7, 2004 1:15PM

I say an unqualified YES, and I am by no means a Mets fan

http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/francjo01.shtml

Why the heck does Eckersley get in on the first ballot but Goose Gossage continues to get no respect?!?!

kuhlmann · January 7, 2004 1:24PM

I agree that john franco belongs in the hall of fame. he has the most saves by a lefty(im pretty sure)! so right there would have to get you in. plus he has had a great career.

Gemmy10 · January 7, 2004 1:29PM

Franco's 2.74 ERA is 0.76 points lower than Eckerley's 3.50 ERA also.

Now what the heck about Gossage?

downgoesfrazier · January 7, 2004 1:30PM

Gemmy,
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion but by saying that John Franco is a hall-of-famer you are showing that you are indeed "unqualified"...your Gossage argument redeems you some, but Franco is not and will not ever be for the same reason Lee Smith will have to buy a ticket--he was never THE man...ever. A nice set-up LHP who came to close many meaningless in season affairs with a strong personality and competitive fire--a fan favorite, if you will--but calling him a HOF'er is like saying I should date in the same league as Brad Pitt.

dgf

DeutscherGeist · January 7, 2004 1:31PM

I think Franco will make in. He is the all-time saves leader for lefties (I confirmed that) and second overall.

He has proven he can close games effectively even after his prime. It is hard to be an all-time leader in stats if one is not healthy and effective. Franco is in rare company indeed. He does not have to retire next year. I think he is on the roster for next year if I read correctly.

downgoesfrazier · January 7, 2004 1:34PM

Guys, with all due respect, you've been hangin' out with my screen icon too long...

...never, ever, ever under ANY circumstances or opium jag will Mr. Franco be in the hall-of-fame without his camera and duffle bag.

dgf

DeutscherGeist · January 7, 2004 2:38PM

DGF,

I think you can date in the same league as Brad Pitt. There is value placed on guys that are articulate, so don't sell yourself short. But don't come to me to hook you up as I am no matchmaker.

Franco was never as dominate as the Eck, but usually players who lead all-time in a category tend to do well with the Baseball Writers or Vetrans Committee.

Beachbum · January 7, 2004 4:05PM

With all due respect Gemmy and Deutschergeist......NO Way !

I'm a pseudo Mets fan and even I can tell you he has no place in the Hall Of fame.

However, the "Wall of Fame" at Shea Stadium is another matter...I'll look for him there.

Gatorbait · January 7, 2004 9:16PM

Not a chance. And the comparison between Franco's and Eck's ERAs is awful (Eck started half his career). I have a feeling that Eck, or possibly Goose/Sutter, will be the bottom line of closer HOFs. Franco doesn't reach that line.

mrc32 · January 7, 2004 11:01PM

No way. I watched him for years with the Reds and was a fan. But he is not HOF material. Nada...nope....no dice.

80sToyguy · January 8, 2004 12:30AM

I agree, he won't even come close to getting in. NO WAY!
Jay

oaktown · January 8, 2004 12:55AM

This actually got me off my can to comment....allowing a Franco into the HOF would cheapen the honor greatly and allow other mediocre pitchers arguments for themselves (Reardon, Randy Myers, Doug Jones). It basically comes down to the fact that Franco was never a "dominate" closer like Eck and Goose.

downgoesfrazier · January 8, 2004 1:28AM

downgoesfrazier · January 8, 2004 1:34AM

DG,
I understand what you're saying in ragards to "all-time leaders", but the save is just slightly more important statistically than how many bags of peanuts a vendor moves on a Tuesday evening at Shea. Each year this overrated statistic lands somebody a large contract but that is because many GM's are glorified fantasy leaguers. How's Billy Koch doin' these days? For every Trevor or Rivera there are countless Joe Borowski's. Nice, competitive, hard-working pitchers, but nothing dominant about them. I would say Franco leans closer to Borowski than the former and thus will have to buy a ticket to see the wonderful displays like the rest of us. I would suggest to Mr. Franco that September is a great time to visit upstate NY. The leaves are beautiful and the air is crisp and there are virtually no lines at the Museum...of course he is used to having free time in late September in New York.

dgf

P.S. OK, let's start with Jennifer Annisten (sp?)

40ozman · January 8, 2004 1:52AM

<< <i>He has proven he can close games effectively even after his prime. >>

Yup, 27 saves in the last four years. Do my A's still need a closer? Get real people. Franco was a great reliever, but will not go into the hall. Someone said it above, that eckersley will be the low water mark. Franco is below that.
Total number of saves means very little. Bobby Thigpen held the single season record at one time. The last couple of years the A's have been successful using castoffs from other teams as closers, with good success. Every year a closer puts up huge save numbers, and disappears.

Vargha · January 8, 2004 2:08AM

No.

Davino · January 8, 2004 4:59AM

No. Eckersley yes, Franco no....

purelyPSA · January 8, 2004 5:31AM

Franco won't stay on the ballot for more than one year.

metsfan · January 8, 2004 9:01AM

As a met fan,I say No. Franco was a pretty good pitcher,but not HOF material.

NickM · January 8, 2004 10:48AM

I too say no. John Franco was very good, and was consistent for a long time, but what separates John Franco from relievers who should make the Hall is that John Franco was never feared around the league. Eckersley was feared. Gossage was feared. Fingers was feared. Sutter was feared. Trevor Hoffman and Mariano Rivera are feared. For a few years, Quisenberry was feared. Lee Smith was feared during the 1980s. Eric Gagne looks like he may be feared for a long time. John Smoltz looks to be sufficiently feared (considering his career as a starter was of the sort that gets you mentioned for the Hall in conversations).

Don't forget that by the time Franco is eligible for the Hall, there may be several more players ahead of him on the career saves list.

Oh. Thigpen still holds the single-season saves record.

Nick

Griffins · January 8, 2004 10:55AM

If you have to ask, then you already have your answer. The Hall should be for no brainer choices- I think Molitor and Eck both were consistant with that thinking. Not so sure about a few others- Maranville, Geo Kelley, Fox, Maz, Scheondienst, Kell, Doerr, Rizzuto, etc.

Jersey · January 8, 2004 11:31AM

I am not a Franco fan. But, I think that with the saves he has amassed over the many years, he deserves to get in.

DeutscherGeist · January 8, 2004 12:21PM

wow, I never knew this thread would cause so much controversy. All right already, so maybe Franco won't make the HOF, can't say he didn't try.

If too many good closers come up in the next ten years, then Franco will get lost in the pile. Now, that is a big "if." I mean, closers come and go.

DGF,

Is Jennifer Aniston really desireable in all aspects? Hollywood types are just too flaky and have too many divorces. How special is that?

BASEBALL, where are you when I have a thread going about Mattingly's chances in the HOF? Come by next time.

aro13 · January 8, 2004 1:02PM

As I mentioned in another thread I do not think Eckersley's induction will pave the way for other relievers. The person it helps the most is John Smoltz.
As for John Franco, he led the league in saves only 3 times and with pretty low numbers for a league leader. He has never been considered for the MVP or even the Cy Young. Unless, there is a huge floodgate of relievers entering the Hall, I do not like his chances.

Gottabuyit · January 8, 2004 1:35PM

He has not really done anything other than the saves. Don Mattingly deserves to be in long before Franco even though mattingly had so few years. Mattingly at least dominated at some point in his career. Franco has not really dominated anything.

downgoesfrazier · January 8, 2004 2:04PM

Now Mattingly is an interesting topic...

I would vote for Don Mattingly and I know many others would not.

dgf

Gottabuyit · January 8, 2004 2:17PM

Mattingly had about 4 really GREAT seasons, but the rest were injury plagued. I would say after Lou Gehrig, Mattingly would be my favorite Yankee, and I stopped liking the Yankees years ago. If he had been a World Series stage hitting the winning homerun, that possibly would have helped his cause.

How about this for weird. Don Mattingly's Yankee career was surrounded by Yankee World Series Appearances, 1981, 1996. They never made the playoffs in any of his seasons with the team. The year after he stops playing, what do the Yankees do.............? They win their 23rd championship. Mattingly is number 23! The curse of Donnie Baseball. To add to it, the year they retired his number in 1997 (I was there, 4th row from the Yankee dugout!) they choke in the first round of the playoffs against the Indians. After that season, they keep winning world series for three years. Now Mattingly is back with the Yankees, so they won't be winning it this year.

Gottabuyit · January 8, 2004 2:22PM

I stand corrected, you are right. I forgot about that. Griffey scored from first to kill the Yankees. I guess I wanted to forget that. That was not the world series though.

downgoesfrazier · January 8, 2004 2:35PM

I liked Mattingly so much that in college I altered my stance for almost a month trying to be like him. He was really something special. I miss watching him and can only say that about a handful of players. I genuinely MISS it.

dgf

Gottabuyit · January 8, 2004 2:37PM

It would have been really nice if he could have at least been in a world series.

Gottabuyit · January 8, 2004 2:40PM

I don't think Pete Rose deserves to be in the Hall after the way he has acted. Keep the life time ban. After that interview, I like him even less. Up until 2 years ago I thought they should let him in, but no more.

Is John Franco a Hall of Famer?

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