Ok, sorta a stupid question

hockeyman1717

Well i have been reading a little bit on error stuff. I have come across the double dies, machine doubling, and die fatigue.

My question is, How exactly do you tell the difference between double dies and machine doubling. I have never actually seen one in person of either kind. But I have seen some pictures of them and they look the same.

My other quaestion what exactly is die fatique. I know what causes it but how do you spot it instead of being another type of error? Do they bring any kind of a premium?

Thanks for your help,

Chase

hockeyman1717

ttt

hockeyman1717

Can anyone help?

mas3cf

First of all, the only stupid question is the one you don't ask... telling these types of doubling apart is not trivial. The main thing to look for is so-called "shelf doubling;" i.e., if the secondary feature is weaker than the primary; it is almost certainly machine doubling. If you have a pair of features of equal strength, then it is a doubled die!

I'm not too knowledgeable about die fatigue, so can anyone else chime in?

-matt

hockeyman1717

So then what exactly causes machine doubling compared to double dies? Aren't they both stamped twice? Or did i misinterpret what i read wrong?

mas3cf

A true doubled die occurs when the die is created; when the hub is being prepared, it needs to be impressed with the coin's image multiple times to ensure a complete image. If one or more of the impressions is out of line, a doubled die results. Every coin struck with this die will exhibit the same doubling. Machine doubling results from the die richocheting onto the newly stamped coin at the end of the strike. To see how this can happen, take a piece of wood on a concrete floor and hit it hard with a hammer. Observe how the piece of wood moves when you hit it (unless you have it clamped down). If you want to get real fancy, cover the hammer head with ink and do this experiment... my guess is you would get a primary image, along with one or more lighter images.

Here's a website which is pretty educational and has good photos:
Doubling


-matt

hockeyman1717

Ok thanks that site looks great and your information really helped,

Thanks Again,

Chase

sinin1

die fatigue can be seen by lines or weakening letters - and sometimes 'cuds' which are chunks that break off the die leaving a blob - usually near the rim

machine doubling is a 'unique' event - the coin does not get ejected and gets stamped/pressed again - occasionally just a little rotated from 1st impression, usually some letters or dates involved

double dies - are in the master hubbing process which makes a die that produces hundreds or thousands of coins - a good example is the 1955 double die penny


you should learn RPM - repunched mintmarks - a doubling just on the mintmark because someone double punched ( mintmarks were applied manually)

a good website is run by 'CONECA" which has ?all? known and verified double dies listed (but not pictured)