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Technical grade vs Market Grade

Doesnt it seem like certain coins are often graded much more leniently? For instance, it seems like gold Saints are fairly easy to get into a 65 holder, even with marks and wear that would, on a $10 Liberty or Indian for instance, get at most a 64. Granted I am relatively new to this, but, I would think that consistency would be to everyones advantage. It seems that the difficulty in achieving the next higher grade is directly dependent on how much the price goes up in that higher grade. The $5 Indians in MS64 are about 3k, while in MS65 they are 15k and from my experience and from what others have told me its really hard to get into a 65. I have seen many MS63s in $5 indians look as nice as a lot of 65 Saints. Any thoughts?

Comments

  • PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭
    Seems like a small mark on a small coin makes a lower grade than the same small mark on a larger coin.
  • LucyBopLucyBop Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭
    the bigger in size the coin, the bigger the hits will be...

    a Franklin half in a ms66 will have some hits......

    these same hits on a roosie will drop it to a 5 holder.......


    imageBe Bop A Lula!!
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  • RussRuss Posts: 48,515 ✭✭✭
    Here's an example of market grading:

    image

    I would not have graded that coin better than MS65. PCGS graded it MS66 because it has the "look" they like - lots of luster.

    Here's another example of market grading:

    image

    The coin has extensive hairlining in the left obverse field that would normally keep it from grading higher than PR64. But, it has extraordinarily deep mirrors for the issue and got a bump because the eye appeal is at the top of the scale.

    Russ, NCNE
  • MetaMeta Posts: 62 ✭✭


    << <i>Seems like a small mark on a small coin makes a lower grade than the same small mark on a larger coin. >>




    This is sometimes the case, but, considering the hits usually (just a theory...am I correct?) come from other coins when they are minted, a smaller coin will make a smaller mark on a coin made of the same material. I totally agree that the same size hit on a smaller coin will lower the grade more than it does on a larger coin, but, what I am seeing is often a proportionate mark(s) will lower the grade more on a coin that will jump significantly in value in the next higher grade.
  • darktonedarktone Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭
    Meta, don't forget there are other factors besides marks that determine a coins grade such as luster, color, eye appeal, strike, hairlines and so on. If you had two gold coins with the same amount of surface marks but one had average luster and a so-so strike and the other had super-duper luster and a great strike- how much higher would you grade the nicer looking one even though technically they had the same surface marks? Just something to think about. I sure wish I had your problem of only getting MS64 on $5 indiansimage. mike
  • greghansengreghansen Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭
    I think there is something to what your saying. If there is a big price difference between 2 grades, 'liner' coins are going to get kept down. If there isn't a big price multiple between grades, the same type of liner coins will get the benefit of the next higher grade. I've seen this phenomenon even in the Morgan series for those dates where there is a 10 times jump between MS64 & MS65. For those dates, you will find lots of MS64 coins that if they were a more common date, would easily fit into a MS65 slab.

    Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum

  • MetaMeta Posts: 62 ✭✭


    << <i>Meta, don't forget there are other factors besides marks that determine a coins grade such as luster, color, eye appeal, strike, hairlines and so on. If you had two gold coins with the same amount of surface marks but one had average luster and a so-so strike and the other had super-duper luster and a great strike- how much higher would you grade the nicer looking one even though technically they had the same surface marks? Just something to think about. I sure wish I had your problem of only getting MS64 on $5 indiansimage. mike >>



    I'm not complaining about the grades, its more of the philosopher in me trying to understand how the whole system works. Philosophy of grading? Woulda been nice to get a 65, but, I kinda like the idea of resubmitting the best of the bunch for a shot at the 65. I would think that if its truly unbiased, that even a medium-strong 64 would eventually find its way into a 65 if you submitted it enough. I can just picture the PCGS people looking up your account and going, "Oh, heres that $5 indian for the 11th time!" Anyone else think that they might get a little annoyed by this? Who has the record for crackout resubmittals? Theoretically, if PCGS believes in the accuracy of their work, they shouldnt frown on it at all. In fact, it makes money for them each time. I would think they would be amused if nothing else!
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    PCGS is doing what the market wants. There is a reason they are the top grading company. They give the consumer what they want. Some say they over grade, others say they under grade. Heck, even Coin World claims AGC is better than PCGS, however, the consumers still prefer PCGS even after their write-up on how great AGC is at consistancy!

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

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