Random thoughts/advice regarding 1965 Topps Baseball

Basilone

On another thread Tipem (Vic) was interested on some nuances and/or a few pricing parameters regarding the 1965 Topps Baseball set. I figured I would list some thoughts I had regarding the set and hope others who have collected the set could add their own thoughts as well.

1.) PSA 8 Commons: I hate to say it but in the past two years the prices of random PSA 8 commons have gone down in price. Cards that once where selling for at or above SMR can now be had between $10-13.00. This is good news for collectors who wish to build a good majority of the set for well under SMR. For instance just a day or two ago...a #223 Dan Osinski PSA 8 sold for $9.99 yesterday. I have both bought and sold that card for well over $30.00 a year ago. In fact it sold for $38.00 back in April of this year when Mastro sold off his set.

2.) Charlie Smith: The KEY common to get. POP of 4 and all the cards (except the elusive PSA 9) are spoken for. Davalillo has always had one of them. The other 3 have been sold since April 2003. 2 via eBay and 1 privately. Mastro sold his for $306.00 in April of 2003...mainly thanks to snipe programs freezing. The person listing his set had 597 auctions ending at the exact same moment. The one Skipm. sold for approx $500.00 this past summer I believe. The 4th Charlie Smith was just sold this week.

3.)Stars and Semi-Stars that hold their prices: Bob Gibson, Billy Williams, Ron Santo and Lou Brock have held their values well. Tony Oliva is a monster semi-star in this set and sells for well above SMR. In addition expect to pay well over SMR for Bobby Richardson, Ken Boyer, Rico Carty and Joe Pepitone. In fact, if you do not mind slightly oversized cards that are held in Mylar sleeves...Mickey's Sportscards has a Joe Pepitone PSA 9 at a great price. Mantle also is holding well as a well-centered PSA 8 will sell right around SMR. Try to get the rest of the stars and key rookies for under SMR....except for the Morgan RC...this shouldn't bee too tough.

4.)Team Cards: The most expensive team cards compared to SMR will be the Pittsburgh Pirates and Minnesota Twins Team cards. Do not get sucked in my the SMR for the Mets, Yankees, and Orioles Team cards...there is a ton of them in PSA 8 and can be had at a discount.

5.) Yankees, Yankees, Yankees- The commons usually all go for above SMR with the exception of Pedros Ramos, Pedro Gonzalez, and the Yankees Rookie Stars cards.

6.) High Numbers are the easiest: Yep...even though the SMR is higher....the high number (SMR of $22.00) are the easiest cards to get in the set.....these can be had many times at 50-60% of SMR.

7.) Low POP Commons - Here are some of the tough ones...for now...next year they may be all over the place (ie. Joe Gibbon). #14 Len Gabrielson, #21 Don Blasingame, #25 Al McBean, #44 Wade Blasingame, #71 John O';Donoghue, #96 Sonny Siebert, etc.

8.) Watch who is winning the auctions...if you see a new name winning 75% of the auctions they are bidding on....especially the higher pops...back off. Chances are this may be a collector new to the set who might be over-paying for some of the easier cards. Do not try to compete with them....patience is the key.

Any other 1965 guys have any additional thoughts?

toppsgun

As a reasonably active participant on the '65 set, I'll offer the following:

1) Don't make too many assumptions on recent auctions, i.e., this past weekend's offered by skipm. on ebay. I had several bookmarked on my watch list, but simply did not bid due to extenuating circumstances relating to holiday travel, etc. I'm kicking myself at some of the prices those cards went for. I may not have won (m)any, but the prices would have been substantially higher had they closed a week or even a day later.

2) I've purchased over 56% of the set in graded form (8's and 9's), mostly on ebay with a couple of small private transactions. Another 30% I submitted myself, including some expensive ones (Yankees Team, Flood, Wagner, Menke, Schofield, Santo, Stargell, Maz, Oliva, Colavito, Mantle HR & Clemente and been fortunate to get 8's). My personal experience in the 56% purchased items, most of which closed over the past year:

152 Low number ($18 SMR) commons: avg. price paid, including s/h is 78% SMR.
102 semi-highs ($22 SMR) commons: 73% SMR.
25 high number SP's ($32 SMR) commons: 77% SMR.
8 team cards ($27 SMR): 61% SMR.
21 minor stars (under $70 SMR) and 28 stars ($75 & up SMR): both groups avg. 75% SMR.

3) I just checked Mickey's site and the Pepitone is nowhere to be found.

4) Among the first cards I purchased were Carlton (paid 86% SMR and probably overpaid considering 502 8's are listed in the pop.), Perez (paid 73% SMR), and Gibson (also 73%).

5) Among the great "steals" I got, I bought a SGC 86-Berra off of dhcards for $56 and it crossed to a PSA 8 (SMR of $130); I've since been banned from his auctions. I also picked up a Rose and Aaron at 63% of SMR and Murakami at 72%.

6) Had I been willing to pay more for the cards I still need, I'd probably be complete by now, and with a cost basis still under SMR. But I've been patient and it's paid off.

Basilone

The Pepitone was there last time I checked...I was excited to see the price..but passed when I saw the Mylar sleeve...Im not a big fan of those personally.

34GoudeyCollector

I think you guys brings up a very important aspect of the hobby here: PATIENCE. Although it's hard sometimes, patience does pay off in this hobby. I've run across some incredible deals in my 20+ years of collecting just by waiting for the card(s) I want to come at a price I'm comfortable with. There are of course some extremely rare cards where there is not always a choice and big bucks must be shelled out for those, but more often than not, the cards will come at good price sooner or later. Patience, I believe, is probably the hardest mindset to learn in this great hobby of ours.
Ken

Hubcap

Nice to hear these thoughts especially when I will start grading my 65 set next year.

I agree that the high numbers are realtively available (raw) especially when I put the set together 6-7 years ago.

I looked at my Charlie Smith. I think you are looking at #5 PSA 8. With respect to the Yankees minor stars, just a matter of supply and demand. There are a lot of them out there still raw. Many NY collectors are still not sold on grading.

The only cards I had graded from the set to date are Mantle (PSA 7 dead centered. Penalized for a slight upturned corner.), McCarver (PSA 8) and Berra (PSA 8).

1420sports

Any thoughts on a PSA 8 Al Lopez? I have one, and I am looking to get rid of some cards I do not need to make room for my 67 set. It is a fantastic card.

mickeys

HI

Pepitone sold a few weeks ago along with a bunch of 1965s 9s - shortly after we opened the "Mint Gallery" feature which segs out all the MINT PSA cards into a seperate section. I agree with the initial write up and would add the following.

Sometime "hot" stars (95-110% SMR) - Yaz, Maris, Mathews, Killebrew, Spahn, Koufax, Brock and the #1 and #3 Mantle Leader

Almost always in the deep freeze - Hi Pop stars Berra & Fox, plus Catfish, Mantle WS, Morgan, and McCovey.

Cards i expect 150% BINs on - Clete Boyer, Tony Kubek, Al Downing, Elston Howard and Tom Tresh, especially the 598 card.

I also had some experience with these that the vending cards were cut a tiny bit shorter (possibly end of the year hobby box cards) - I remember seeing large mint runs in the early 80s that were all a bit short and by far, more of our submissions on this set are rejected as "MinSizeReq" than any other Topps issue.

Mick

Basilone

Mickey-

Thanks for your thoughts..your are right regarding #598 Al Downing.

1420Sports-

The Al Lopez is not to hard to find..even though he is a HOF'er...it is a Manager card and usually sells between $16-20 dollars.

1420sports

Thanks John. If anyone needs one and has some 67 PSA 7-8 I need, I will be more than happy to trade it.

Tipem

Where to start!!

I would like to thank those of you that have generously given of hard earned advice.As I stated in an earlier thread,I have jumped into the 65 set without so much as an inkling of knowledge about the set other than the fact that I really like the set.I also stated that the 65 collectors seem more like brethern than individual collectors and that fact was proven shortly after my posting that comment.BobS contacted me with some good advice. Thanks Brian!!!

Also,the mere inception of this thread was another direct response to my other thread as John alluded to. Thanks John.

I have learned more in this thread about 65's than I have learned in collecting for 20 years or so.


Toppsgun,

I left a snipe off E-Bay last night when I saw it was you that was high bidder.

I look forward to dealing with many of you in the future.I am going to try to put together a set of at least PSA 8 or better with close attention paid to centering.The key word in my last statement is "try".If anyone has well centered 65's at fair market prices that they would like to offer,PM me.

Vic

theBobs

It looks like Vic will get signed up to the old listserve shortly. He will be able to access the historical emails that the original group wrote (John, Jay, Wayne, me, metalmike, sellerman, etc.).

The listserve is still active, if other 1965 set builders would like to join send me a PM. Even if people aren't actively emailing it, the historical posts are great background for new 1965 collectors.

Tipem

Thanks!!!

Sounds like a


Vic

qualitycards

<< <i>the historical emails that the original group wrote (John, Jay, Wayne, me, metalmike, sellerman, etc.). >>


THEBOBS - Don't forget JILL's imput too! ...jay

Buccaneer

Thanks guys, this is a great thread.

sellerman23

Sweet thread!

Tipem, welcome to the set! I have to admit I thought there was a mistake when you outbid me on a few PSA 9's recently. I remembered sitting with you at the PSA luncheon at the National and heard you say that you collected 56's not 65's. It's great to have you aboard. Plus, you saved me some money! I don't uaually bid on PSA 9's, but there were some going pretty cheap I couldn't help myself.

1) It was me that won the Dan Osinski for a mere $9.99 the other day. There have been a lot of PSA 8's on the market lately but my guess is that there will be fewer over the coming year. A few of the big players are selling off their sets. Everyone knows about Mastro selling off his set over the summer on eBay and the resulting fiasco that ensued due to them all ending in one day. Zeder has also stopped collecting and you will his cards on eBay a lot and skipm. has also sold off so that he can concentrate on his unopened material. He sold a bunch of his roughly 400 PSA 9's to The Duke of Mint and Strapper (Bob's 1965 Topps Set - not to be confused with theBobs from these boards). So Duke and Strapper have been selling all their 8's on ebay as well as skipm. recently. Not a bad time to pick up some discounts.

2) My Charlie Smith is OC. I think we all know who got the PSA 8 last week. He understands what matters most.

3) John is right about the team cards. In fact, the first PSA 1965 card I bought on eBay was a Yankees Team card for only $60 (SMR $100). I had only submitted 1965's before that. There have been many more that have gone for under that. There is a PSA 9 on right now and I would bet you could get it pretty cheap. SMR is $350 and I would not be surprised if it went for less than half of that or under.

4) Dodgers as well as Yankees are hard to find at a discount.

5) I seem to have a harder time finding cards from the middle series in graded from rather that the last two and the first series. Not sure why, though. I'm sure you will find later series in better shape because like other sets, they were handled less than the other series and were only out for a bit before kids put them away for the year or longer.

6) There were a few guys winning a bunch of the 1965's a while back that were seemingly overpaying a lot. TapTap67 comes to mind as well as another who I heard was buying them for her boyfriend. But I have not seen them as much lately. And I am pretty sure their sets are not registered. BTW, when are you going to register your set, Tipem?

7) Finding raw cards are tough. Even at large regional shows and the National. I have pretty much given up on looking. When I first got on eBay a few years ago to complete the set, I got some nice raw cards (including a Koufax that got a PSA 8!) but I am not sure how much is out there right now, especially since grading has become as popular as it has.

8) It would be great to get the listserve active again. Always great insight to be had with all the knowledge all the collectors seem to have.

That's all for now. I will add more if it comes to me.

Dave
sellerman23

theBobs

Dave -- didn't you find a raw Al Downing at nationals that graded 8 NQ?

sellerman23

theBobs,

I would have to say that the Downing found me.
It sure was not in any dealers book or bin...

Thanks Brian!

Dave
selleman23

Tipem

Dave,

When I realized that you were on the boards,I was not too happy with sniping you. I guess that I had not put two and two together.Sorry!!! I sometimes have a tendency to jump into sets too fast,so I may wait a while to register my set.It would be nice to drop out of the sky in the top 10. I am sure that with you following the 65 set,you will know what I am buying.

I have noticed that Strapper is buying 9's(sniped my snipe last night) I will probably stay pretty low key after an initial first push.
I am looking forward to interacting with the 65 guys.Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.


Vic

sellerman23

Tipem,

Don't ever worry about sniping me. Most of the other 65 collectors know my usual limits and I tell them to go for it. I have been actually trying for some cards lately, but I'm in no rush. I might put together a 100+ card submission soon that will be mostly 7 and some 8's, but I have been saying that for way too long. Especially since the new Registry special came out. I am going to submit most of my recent HOFers for my set with that one and will have to save up again for a 65 submission.
Good luck with the 65's!
I actually have a high number 65 PSA 9 that I think I might eBay because I know Strapper and Duke need it. There will be a very high reserve on it. I have never sold off stuff from my set like that and it would be the first time. I will have to make sure I get an PSA 8 to replace it asap.

Dave
sellerman23

Wayne8348

Dave,

You're best off selling now before one or the other of them find a copy of it somewhere else. I'm sure you know what the 9's that they need are bringing.

Very good thread guys - great information!


Wayne

theBobs

Dave,

I agree with Wayne. Based on my understanding of your collecting priorities and timelines, I'd sell any cards into the big boys while the getting is good. Just my 2 cents...

Wayne8348

Dave,

Think about how much roulette you could play the proceeds!!!



Wayne

theBobs

Or all the off centered 1986 Topps Roger Clemens cards...

sellerman23

Brian and Wayne,

LMAO here! You guys are cracking me up! The card will start at 8 Est. tomorrow night.
As you know I usually don't do this, but I might as well take advantage of it while I can. I will apologize to the top two in the auction.
And since I'm going to Vegas in March, some of these proceeds just might make it onto a felt-covered table out there...


Dave
sellerman23

sellerman23

The auction is up!
Here is the link:

1965 Topps PSA 9 Pop 5




watch it not meet the reserve with lmayer as the high bidder...


Dave
sellerman23

Cubfan

Boy, thats a great looking ebay format Dave.

Is that difficult and/or expensive to do that as such?

Thanks,

Keith

sellerman23

Thanks! It's pretty easy. I actually copped it off someone else's auction a while back becuase I liked the simple look of it. I like to change the colors once in a while. For the large pics I use Vendio.com. I costs a little extra but I think the size makes it worth it. Give me your email address and I will send you a word file with all the html for that auction format if you want.

Dave
sellerman23

misterebay@yahoo.com

qualitycards

DAVE - I like "theBobs" touch.
I usually look for cards w/ that in the search, so thanks! ...jay

Virtualizard

<< <i>DAVE - I like "theBobs" touch.
I usually look for cards w/ that in the search, so thanks! ...jay >>



It's better than "KIT YOUNG". I haven't seen that in a while, but seeing that ebay is adding an extra 10 characters to the available length of auction titles, you might soon see a comeback. Maybe I'll give it a shot - 1968 Topps #86 Willie Stargell PSA 8 NM-MT VIRTUALIZARD.

JEB.

Basilone

Here is an old thread for some of you guys now collecting the 1965 set.

John

WinPitcher

Thanks John

iamthegreatcornholio

TTT for any new guys.

Basilone's advise is still solid 18+ months later.

Here's my 2 cents as I'm almost done.

Generally speaking the mid-numbered cards are the toughest despite lack of reflection in the SMR. Yankees and Dodger still command a good premium, especially mid-numbered examples.

Many non-superstar, non-low-pop cards can command a premium. Generally these cards have numbers that end in 5 or 0. Frank Howard, Juan Marichal, Tony Conigliaro, Ken Boyer, Ron Santo, Bobby Richardson, Bill White, Joe Torre, Billy Williams, Joe Pepitone, Rico Carty, Tony Oliva, Vada Pinson, Curt Flood, and Al Downing to name a few.

Don't get caught up in "9 wars". 9's are quite volatile, and once a commons's population reaches 10 or more, the price will become reasonable.

Brian

miami3

FYI......I am in the process of breaking up a high grade 65 Topps baseball set and have most of the star cards and tough cards in psa 8 grade, so keep an eye out for my upcoming auctions on ebay.....sorry for the SPAM.

WinPitcher

I agree Brian.

Steve

TheCARDKid

Any estimates as to what #25 Al McBean would sell for in PSA 8 (pop 20)?

It's one of the last raw high grade '65 commons that I have. It looks a high end 7, with a chance of an 8.

WinPitcher

Depends, I have seen a guy buy one for 25.00 and flip it for 100.00

it all depends on if it is out there when someone really wants it. I was lucky to get an ALMCBEANPSA9 for 80.00


On a good day a mcbean will fetch 100.00 on ebay.


SD

TheCARDKid

A McBean 7 sold for $10.05 a few weeks ago.

A Rico Carty just sold for $202 in PSA 8 and Walt Bond sold for $153 (pop 19 and 17). Are those typical prices?

Someone also bought a raw Charlie Smith for $41.00.

Raw Charlie Smith

iamthegreatcornholio

<< <i>A McBean 7 sold for $10.05 a few weeks ago.

A Rico Carty just sold for $202 in PSA 8 and Walt Bond sold for $153 (pop 19 and 17). Are those typical prices?

Someone also bought a raw Charlie Smith for $41.00.

Raw Charlie Smith >>




McBean is tough to find well-centered. I bought a 7 for $6 and it has mint corners, gloss, and edges, but it is 70/30 both ways. 7's go for $6-$15. Steve's quote about 8's is accurate, a well-centered 8 can hit as much as $100+

The Rico Carty before that last 8 for $200 sold for $250. He's a toughie, but if you get lucky, you may be able to get one for $100... Walt Bond same story, $100-$150 is typical, that 8 DSL had was an ugly 8 IMO.

Charlie Smith is the toughest card in the set. Centering is a major issue... I believe well-centered 6's have sold for almost $50! Marginally centered 7's fetch $30, and a well-centered 7 sold for $130 I believe. If that raw card graded a 7, it'd be easy to recoup cost, if it graded an 8 he just won the lottery.

Brian

Southerncards

I collect 65's in Someother Grading Company's holder and I was intrigued by the pop report numbers presented. here. My set has much lower grades as I dont really want to compete with the big boys but rather pick up cards that I can live with, mostly 5/6's.

Anyway, I checked their pop report and found that the Charlie Smith card has a pop of 4, 2 '96's and 2 88's.....thought it was interesting that the pop reports numbers were similair.

WinPitcher

Thanks for that info southern and good luck with your 65 set.

it is a fav of mine.

Steve

Duke

John-Great tread-as you know my set is primarily 9's.However I have been on the sidelines lately due to rum bidding very high on low pop 9's.I am exercising patience and waiting as I will not enter a bidding war with him above my max price.I usually do not list the 8's I have on e-bay anymore as I sell or trade them to two or three 65 collectors that are working on 65 sets.We all make out as I get a little better price then I would on e-bay and I do not incur the fees.They in turn get a high grade 8 at a reasonable price.The Drysdale in a 9 was hard to find and I got over book for the 8 on e-bay.I agree with your list of difficult commons.As for Strapper I do not think he is working on another set.I bought alot of 9's from him when he broke his set-by the way he is a great guy.The most joy I have gotten from building my set is the great people I have met who are also putting a 65 set together.I need one more 9 or 10 to push my set grade to 9.02 but the pickings are slim.Patience is a virtue often found in women but never in men.If anyone needs help on the 65 set send me an e-mail-I do not charge for advice.John are you building a 65 set -Duke

iamarock

Does anyone know who owns the #1 cards in psa 9? The only one in the registry that I can find is in Duke's set. One has recently been graded- pop going from 6 to 7 after being stuck on 6 for quite awhile. Perhaps it will be turning up on ebay soon. Seems like dsl gets a lot of those.

smallstocks

I just got back my first grades on raw 1965's (including Spahn and Brock PSA 9's) and am considering giving this set a go in 7 and up. If anyone is willing to part with a block or two of cards, doubles or otherwise, please PM me and let me know what you would part with them for. I must honestly say that will help me determine whether or not to give this a go.

Mike

Basilone

Duke-

I've been out of the 1965 game for a couple of years....but I still follow the set. Rum indeed is paying strong for cards....



<< <i>Depends, I have seen a guy buy one for 25.00 and flip it for 100.00 >>



guilty as charged....gotta sell when the time is right (and a deep pocket collector needs it)....both sales were on eBay by the way...within a couple months or so of one another.

theBobs

A couple of Charlie's just sold on ebay. Strong prices still on that card...

jeff8877

Does the first series checklist #79 with the either the Cannizzaro or C. Cannizzaro variation on the back command a premium. Just checked but PSA does not break this out separately. Just wanting to know if I should pay same price for either one.

Thanks Much Jeff

livi78

hey everyone i just started my 65 set im currently 75th on the registry. thanks for all the great advice. i sold off my 64 set a couple months ago and now im focused on the 65's. i hear everyone talking about snipe programs, were do you get them. if anyone is looking to sell or trade their extra 65's PM me.

lostdart58

MY GOD!! This thread is 4 years old!!

hbsturn

I'm hoping that amongst all of the '65 collectors browsing this thread that someone may have some '65 OPC singles in high-grade (nm/mt (psa 8) or better). I am close to completing the set and would LOVE to finish!! Anyone?... Anyone?... Bueller?...
Thanks! Harold