Big card show in Orlando in January?

miami3

Anyone ever attend the big show at the Orlando Convention center in Orlando,FL?

The next one is coming up January 9th and I was considering attending.

I am a collector of high grade baseball cards from 1952 to 1975 and dont want to waste the time and effort if
there wont be any good stuff there.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Tipem

Jim,

I will be there and so will Virtualizard.I have seen a tentative dealer list and there will be quite a few of the big guys there.I think that it will be a buyers market(just a hunch) .I haven't set my adgenda yet but will keep you posted.I saw in an earlier post that you have your IM on.


Vic

calleocho

im planning on going ..its just a 3 1/2 hours drive from miami.

its an odd time though ..right after the holidays.

Tipem

We should plan a dinner night for board members.

Vic

Virtualizard

<< <i>We should plan a dinner night for board members.

Vic >>




I'm in. Let me know soon so I can plan to be there.

JEB.

murcerfan

Isn't this the first year for this show?
or is it just the first year for new promoter's??

Tipem

What night is best for everybody?? Also,Suggestions for a place to go??

Vic

I can probably be there Thursday thru Sunday.Any night is good for me.

Jeb,


Ask your Orlando connection for a good night spot.

Vic

Tipem

Mercerfan,

I think that it is a first for both.Are you going and do you need a place to stay ?

Vic

Virtualizard

Saturday night will most likely be the best for me. I'm not sure when I'll get there on Friday.

JEB.

marty

I thought that I heard talk at the last September Fort Washington show that some of the dealers were going to a show in Flordia. I thought that the show was in September or October.

toppsgun

Here's some scuttlebutt. I've heard it's a protest show for Tri-Star. Tri-Star has a big Houston show every year at the same time. This year's Houston show is rumored to be a big bust. No decent autograph guests and many usual dealers are opting for the Orlando show.

If I lived within driving distance, I'd be in Orlando that weekend.

Virtualizard

Not sure of the history, but this show has been scheduled for a long time - trust me. I've been following this since I first heard about it some 6-8 months ago. It's the first big show that's ever come close to where I live. Many dealers that I know have had this on their schedule for 4-6 months +.

Here's a link if anyone's interested:

World Of Sports Collectibles - Orlando

JEB.

calleocho

saturday evening would be good! but i am open for other times if it means more people could attend

please PM with any plans.

i went to orlando this past summer and stayed in kissimmi(sp) at the radisson ..great hotel.

Is the convention center close?

aro13

Is this show the show that Rich Altman is promoting? There are some big autograph guests that are going to be signing.

qualitycards

I've heard alot about this show.
Some dealers are skeptical since its a large autograph show, and alot of the collectors money may be spent on the autographs and not on the dealers tables.
Rich Altman is the promoter and wants it to be a high profile show w/ corporate sponsors and a "National" feel to it, not your standard mall show atmosphere. If it was closer then a 20 hour car ride, I'd check it out. Hopefully it works out well for the collector & dealer alike. Ebay and internet sales are great and the wave of the future, but theres something about a high quality show that has a buzz in the air.
And that can't be duplicated on eBay...jay

gaspipe26

It figures, I spend 10 months in the Orlando area and that Friday I have to be in Delaware. Altamonte Springs Hampton Inn is a 15 min drive and $60 a night. Thats where I stay when I'm in Orlando. You can find some cheaper but not nicer.

Hubcap

I passed on setting up at this show and chose Cubsfest instead. The reason is that the trade show and the sports show are separated by a room divider. If it was like the National in AC in one huge room, then I would have considered it.

Remember, the large national dealers who attend these shows are there to BUY. What inventory they have to sell is generally no different than what they have in inventory on their web sites. That was the case in Chicago at the Sportsfest recently. In addition, many times what dealers buy at these shows goes to EBAY, unless they can flip it quick retail or to another dealer. The costs of doing these shows is very high and quality material at shows is getting harder to find.

I predict one of 2 things....the vintage card market will soar this year and/or many national dealers will fade from the scene. Why would anyone on this Board sell to WV Shoebox or Alan Rosen at 40-60% SMR when we can sell online at 85-100-125-250% (sometimes on low pop commons)????????? Where are they going to get inventory? They are also competing against consignment dealers like DSL. Maybe there will be a huge find in Alaska!!!!! *wink*

1954

1954

Hubcap-
I am not very happy about that remark against WV Shoebox. First off it is 100% incorrect that they buy at 45% of SMR. You are leading people to believe that they are CHEAP and UNFAIR. I don't know who you are and I don't want to know either, but Wayne Varner and Bill with WV Shoebox cards is one of the nicest , most professional and most helpful dealers that can be found. You need to know your information a little better before running it on this board.

That pisses me off.

Shane Leonard

JoeOrlando

Hello,

The show is a new concept and the collectibles wing will be small in size but I know that some fo the top dealers in the country will be attending. PSA will also be performing on-site grading and autograph authentication.

Take care,

Joe Orlando
PSA President

thefootballcardstore

PSA’s presence certainly provides much needed validity and stability.
We are grateful PSA came aboard. I have some clients driving from as far as SC just for on-site grading.
See you at the show. Jeremy

Tipem

Thanks Joe.

I agree that with PSA attending the show,it certainly adds credability to the show.I am glad that Psa will be there and I will probably at least get a few cards graded.


Vic

koby

<< <i>Why would anyone on this Board sell to WV Shoebox or Alan Rosen at 40-60% SMR when we can sell online at 85-100-125-250% (sometimes on low pop commons)????????? >>



There is no good reason to sell at wholesale prices to retail dealers. It is so easy to set up an ebay account and sell cards for full value rather than for fraction of full value.

Chew

Just saw the post about WV Shoebox Cards.

I just sold Mr. Varner a 50's star card graded PSA 8. He paid 93% of the SMR. The last one I saw ssell on ebay sold for 75% of SMR. Just thought I would let you guys know.

Thanks H.Walker

1954

Koby-
The point I was making is calling out WVShoebox. This was an unneccessary comment. It was a slam not an opinion. Koby to answer your question, "why would anyone sell to a dealer when you can place it out on Ebay?"

Let me give you MY OPINION and probably Davilillos, Fogals, Luchious, Candioti, and any other small time collector like the ones I just mentioned. R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P-S. This may be hard for small collectors to understand, but a relationship is a lifetime commitment. They don't use dealers to get them one card. Dealers want them as customers, but most importantly, they want the small guys as well. I sell some on Ebay and I sell some items to dealers. I am willing to throw a bone in those guys direction because I want them to stay in business and I am hoping that they will call me up when they buy those 1954 Wilson Weiners or Batter ups.
This board would be really great without the damaging words against fellow members and dealers.

1954

murcerfan

am willing to throw a bone in those guys direction because I want them to stay in business and I am hoping that they will call me up when they buy those 1954 Wilson Weiners or Batter ups.

I would'nt hold my breath if I were you.

Hubcap

Then why don't you go to WV Shoebox's current EBAY auctions of 1956 Topps. You think they contacted anybody on the 1956 Set Registry? I highly doubt it. Why? They will get more online.

Those collectors who rely on national dealers for cards in their sets will be holding their breath forever, like Koby and Murcerfan said. I have given lists to all the national dealers and only two (2), Nick Migliacci and Joe Del Grippo, have had the courtesy of contacting me ahead of time and offering me cards for my sets, prior to them posting the cards on EBAY.

I go to national dealers' web sites daily/weekly looking for something newly posted that I need for my sets. Nothing. And when I see them at shows, they have the same material over and over and over again. Then I see their EBAY auctions and lo and behold...something new that I and other fellow collectors need. Thanks for the call. So why would even want to do business with them face to face?????????????

Let's also get another thing straight...I never said WV Shoebox buys at 45%. And I never said they were not nice people. Wayne is a great guy. My point is why would any collector sell to a dealer at a low(er) percentage when they can maximize their profit online. And the second point I am making is that national dealers, like WV Shoebox, do that (sell online) when it is convenient for themselves (i.e. make a higher profit).

1954

Hubcap-
I agree with 99% of what you are saying. I am very upset when a dealer adds a card that I need to his inventory and does not call me. I guess that is the reason why I am sticking up for Wayne. He contacts me EVERY time when he get a card in from a set. Regardless if I need it or not, he gives me a call just to chat. We can now see how Davilillo feels when he spends large $$$$$ with a dealer and then he doesn't even get a phone call from them. On the other hand, I see why some of the dealers won't sell those cards to him if they are desirable and will exceed the SMR value by 3X. I don't rely on dealers to find me cards, as a matter of fact Murcerfan and I were discussing this last week. I have given my wantlist to about 20 dealers and no one calls me with one of those cards. Most of the dealers are useless, however WV is not one of those. I that is why I take offense to your example.
I think a dealers job is a tough one. You have to know the market of every card that is in your inventory. You can't afford to sell it too low and you can afford to sell it too high. Either way they get hurt.
I am thankful for the relationships of Levi, Wayne Varner, Brian Drent and Luxury Wines for helping me all of these years.

1954

Skycap

Over a year ago I provided my wantlist to approximately 10 well-known dealers, and NOT ONE has ever contacted me offering cards -- yet time and time again I have seen them sell the very cards I need through Ebay or major auctions. I don't waste my time contacting them any more. I don't even look at their web sites. I pretty much just stick to Ebay and am very happy with that! Ebay is the greatest thing to ever happen to this hobby and many other hobbies for that matter. Power to the people!

Skycap

gaspipe26

Skycap,
Here Here!!!

Basilone

<< <i>Ebay is the greatest thing to ever happen to this hobby and many other hobbies for that matter. Power to the people! >>



Right On Brother!

toppsgun

This thread is beginning to sound like the 1917 Bolshevik revolution from Dr. Zhivago.


However, I agree with the ebay thing. It's helped finance my upgrading habit.

mariner

I agree with toppsgun comment. And, it is fun to buy and sell on ebay. I have made contact with some great collectors out there.

miami3

Don,

Great post, I agree 100% with what you are saying.

The thoughts of my original post have been changed to this subject, but while we are talking about it I figured I would throw my two cents in.

Earlier this year I sent a psa 8 only wantlist to 15 of the top "big" dealers in psa graded cards and it has been 8 months since I sent the lists out and I have not gotten one response as of yet.

Although many of these same dealers have no problem in putting the same cards that are on my wantlist up on ebay for auction.

It really makes me mad when these same dealers run big ads in the SMR magazine stating that they are "true wantlist specialists" and "cater to psa collectors", etc. This type of false advertising makes me want to never deal with these type of dealers again and makes them look very un-proffesional.

It seems that ebay and big card shows are the only way to go for already graded psa cards unless you have deep pockets and the big dealers come to you with their new stuff.

Best wishes to all of you in 2004'.

Virtualizard

The best "dealers" for want-lists are the people right here in front of you - the members of these message boards. Post it on the Vintage Sportscard Trading Forum, and you will likely get someone to sell to you or tell you where you can get it. I do many private transactions (almost more than ebay recently) because of the people I have met here. You can't count on dealers but you can count on a lot of the members here.

JEB.

1954

There is no question about it, the people on this board have helped me more than all the dealers added together over the past three years. And Ebay is a tool that I live by each day for collecting and sanity. My point was there are some dealers out there that still provide a service to me and one of those is Wayne.
Here is an example of the other side of the coin, right now I am trying to purchase some batter ups from a dealer. I have cash in my hand and I am ready for a price list. Ten calls and six weeks later still no price list and no correspondance from his side. I wish that I could say he won't be around for very long, but he has been very successful in the past. I am not impressed with his service and will not recommend him.

1954

Vargha

When I was towards the end of building my 1951 Bowman set (90% done), I sent my updated wantlist out monthly to about 20 dealers. In all fairness, at least 70-80% of them never had any cards that I needed by that point in time. Memory Lane was the best in contacting me whenever I needed something. I don't think that most dealers are as fanatical about selling their cards as we can be about acquiring them at times.

1954

Vargha-
I know... why do you think that is? Are the dealers afraid to sell them because we might know more about the set than they do and they don't want to under sell the item?

1954

Vargha

I'm sure that "seller's remorse" enters into it. I sometimes think that dealers would rather have a card sit unsold for twice its market value than sell it at a profit for less than full market value. Collectors also tend to be focused on only one or as many as a few sets at a time. This allows them to maximize their knowledge of the market, including pricing and availability. Dealers, by nature, have to cater to many of these collectors simultaneously, and as such cannot possibly enter into the marketplace with anywhere near the collective knowledge of the people who buy from them. However, some dealers are just lazy.

Hubcap

1954:

Great point. My experience with most national (and smaller regional) dealers is that they don't have a clue on low pops and traditionally OC cards. In addition, I have asked many national dealers (that I spend good deal of money with) to plz check my set registry listing for anything they get in that I might need. "You know that's a great idea and I should start to do that" is the typical response. In fact, a prominent PSA dealer once asked me what the set registry thing is all about !!!!!!!!!

Most dealers look at it from a $$ and cents perspective. How low can I buy it and how high retail can I sell it. There are a few dealers, and board members have commended them, that actually are aware of their customers needs and notify them of something new in stock. However, let me qualify that, and say that usually happens for the most part on lower graded PSA cards than PSA 8s & 9s. The higher grades, regardless of how much you spend with them, goes to auction. And that is a shame.

The best "dealers" I have found/met/broke bread with over the past 5 years are right here on these boards and the relationships we develop among our fellow collectors will satisfy all of our collecting needs.

AZ

murcerfan

I remember where one of the altruistic posters here had 2 psa 8 "1954" dan-dees that would have been a nice upgrade to my registered set....................... I never was offered the cards, despite a long time trading relationship.
.................ever since, WV Shoebox has had them in his catalog (and collecting dust in his show-case) at around 225% SMR if i recall.

.......you know what they say about paybacks.

theBobs

I think the more meaningful relationships for registry participants are with other collectors and not necessarily dealers. There are some dealers that I maintain contact with, and will buy from them at more retail prices from time to time to maintain that relation. However, the area I find greatest value (both collecting-wise and personal) is with other collectors. Often collectors know the specifics on sets/types, market conditions, and card availabilities better than most dealers who by nature are forced to be 'generalists'.

Just my opinion, certainly not a knock on dealers. But I'd rather have good relationships with a dozen active and knowledgable collectors than with 3 dozen big volume national dealers.

Basilone

This stuff has been going on since 1949 !!!!

I was reading the Lionel Carter series of letters (a running 4-part article in SCD) and in one letter a guy was complaining that he sent a want list and was told by the dealer that he didnt have any....then the collector saw that the guy ran an advertisement with those cards...I believe they were Red Sun cards.

Murcer-dont worry too much....sooner or later...those DanDees will hit eBay....everyone has got to eat.

murcerfan

John,

Me worry about Dan-Dees?............ won't happen.
besides, my set is a joke. A few of the PSA graded cards appear to have been trimmed or sheet cut.
fortunatly none of the biggies or PSA 8's.

edited to add: besides, even Davalillo has me beat on them

Basilone

My advice would be to bring them with you to the next large show you attend....and show them to Joe Orlando directly.

murcerfan

exactly what i did do at the National.
Joe and I discussed them and he took them back to "the lab"

edited: to remove flames.

Skycap

Vargha said: "I sometimes think that dealers would rather have a card sit unsold for twice its market value than sell it at a profit for less than full market value"

I fully agree. I have a good personal example of this. There is a 1960's card with an SMR of $275 for sale at $475 in a well-known dealer's inventory. It has been there for at least a year and a half at this price. It's not a particularly rare card; in fact, it has one of the higher populations in the set. I offered $300 when I first discovered the card in his on-line inventory during the middle of 2002. He sent a snippy response and declined to lower it even one cent. This past November, I got the same card off Ebay for $243. Patience can pay off. Meanwhile, the card gathers dust at the dealer. Sure, this dealer may one day get someone to pay $475 for this card; it just won't be me. Doesn't this dealer realize the importance of product turnover? The time that unsold products sit in inventory has a cost.

Skycap

uniship

Well, I am finally turning my thoughts to this show - is there going to be some sort of get-together of any of the board members here? I am going to a restaurant/night spot on both Friday and Saturday. It would be great to meet many of you to talk cardboard - let me know if you can - especially you fantasy football players - or anybody else I have dealt with or talked to in the past! I am PSYCHED about the show!!!!!

Eric

Virtualizard

I have decided to drive to Orlando on Saturday morning. If anyone is interested in a get-together on Saturday evening, let's hear it. It looks like at least 4 of us will be there - Tipem, calleocho, uniship, and myself. Anyone else?

JEB.