$2000 for a 70-D Washington is pretty wild.
DHeath
Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
Looks like a pretty nice coin from a worn out die, with matching abrasions on the lower legs of the eagle. It is sitting at $2000 right now. Is it THAT nice?
PCGS MS-68 70-D Washington.
PCGS MS-68 70-D Washington.
Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
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Comments
NEVER LET HIPPO MOUTH OVERLOAD HUMMINGBIRD BUTT!!!
WORK HARDER!!!!
Millions on WELFARE depend on you!
I like the coin. I'm not sure with 80+ coins available in MS67 at approx. $40 if I like it 25 times better.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
I wonder if it's the same seller, and those are buyback bids, (aka reserves)? The coins are from the same submission.
Russ, NCNE
looks better than that one.
tim
tell from the small picture if this is an especially nice one or not but the surfaces
are certainly nice.
Russ, NCNE
I find it hard to believe there's anything uncommon about that coin.
We ARE watching you.
While I'd agree this coin is probably not especially scarce in this grade, those who
think it's common should try to actually find one raw. This is one of the more common
dates of early eagle reverse clad quarters in original rolls, but months of hard looking
will turn up only a few rolls. Probably the nicest coin in all those rolls will be a MS-63.
You'll need to find well over a hundred original mint sets to find one as clean and finding
these will be much more difficult than you might think. Yes, there may be nearly that
many available on e-bay at any given time but these will generally not be original.
these will be much more difficult than you might think.
Agreed, but 33 years ago is still to close for comfort. Paying $2000 for that coin would be pure speculation. The census on MS68's is likely to increase even if slowly. I know many collectors on this board that have made it a life's pursuit to search mint sets.
We ARE watching you.
<< <i>
Agreed, but 33 years ago is still to close for comfort. Paying $2000 for that coin would be pure speculation. The census on MS68's is likely to increase even if slowly. I know many collectors on this board that have made it a life's pursuit to search mint sets. >>
Please introduce them. I've never actually met another mint setter in person and
have spoken or corresponded with only a handfull until the last few years. In the
old days the only people I'd ever hear of looking at mint sets were collecting only
a single coin and it was usually the half or dollar.
One will occasionally see some evidence of interest in the sets like a missing cent
or nickel in a set, but it seems probable that in most cases the person just needed
a coin for his set and secured the first one he saw.
The prices of these sets actually dropped to less than face value in the 1980's and
'90's. This implies a staggering lack of demand and caused huge attrition when po-
tential sellers would spend the coins in the sets rather than sell them at less than
face value.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
We ARE watching you.
nankraut
<< <i>IMHO...prices like this for (rare??) over-hyped coins like this are absurd, and detrimental to the hobby. The chickens will soon come home to roost. I'll take my $2000 and buy 3 PCGS MS-63 $20 Saints, or 3 PCGS VF $3 gold pieces.
nankraut >>
I've heard all about this hype yet no one has ever shown me any. All I hear is
that clad is garbage and people would be well advised to sell before everyone
wakes up to the fact. If you can find some hype please link it or PM me as I'd
be most interested.
Here's the hype
repaired link
I think the comparison to the 25s Peace Dollar from MS64 to MS65 is probably reasonable. Not to offend dollar collectors but there is sizeable risk in taking the leap from an MS64 to an MS65. I'd probably need to see an MS65++ coin to even consider purchasing the date in MS65. With 70 or so pieces total in MS65 and maybe 2000 betw NGC/PCGS in MS64, you better know the difference between the MS64++ and the MS65- coin. This is an area left to the extreme specialists. I'm more at ease in type coins where typically you see a doubling in price from one grade to the next. Worst case is usually 3-4x. But 30x? Risky business. How many of those 2000 MS64's are waiting in line to become MS65's? Same goes for 1970 Wash quarters I guess. No matter how you cut, much of the price is contained in the grading insert as 1/10th of a point less is 1/30th of the price.
roadrunner
I asked Mr.Hall a question regarding the durability of whole number grading in the face of those multiples for tommorrow's Q & A. I'm interested in his response, because in some cases, PCGS's price guide indicates a 20X or 30X multiple for a single grade point, and because IMO no coin is so easily described and pigeon-holed. I understand price is really only the concern of the buyer and seller, but does a whole point system remain useful to the market in the face of those multiples?
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
But, one thing for certain - THIS SERIES IS CERTAINLY NOT BEING HYPED IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. The best PCGS clad quarter set in the world is not even registered and is virtually never even discussed. The best PCGS clad quarter set which is registered (by a board member) is also virtually never discussed and certainly not hyped. In fact, IMHO, MS (REPEAT MS) clad Wash quarters are one of the best kept secrets out there!! Hardly a word gets discussed about them from month to month, even over on the Registry board. There are probably a couple handfuls of collectors out there who seriously have studied the rarity of all the clad Wash dates in high grade. For many of these collectors, the less said the better, as they "cherry-pick" great deals. Rest assured, there has been -0- hype of clad MS Wash quarters on virtually any posts I have read over the past couple years, although a thread like this one pops up from time to time.
One final comment - I suspect sometime next year PCGS will complete its work in setting up a "global" MS Wash quarter Registry series (1932-1998). I would not be surprised to see MS clad quarters become more "mainstream" once the set becomes 32-98 and there will be quite a few collectors desireous of building a complete 32-98 collection, as I have met a few already.
Wondercoin
<< <i>There are many very scarce clad Wash quarters in high grade (MS67-MS68) and many very common clad quarters particularly in grades MS64-67. For example, a coin like the 1969(p) in grades above MS66 is a very scarce coin and in true MS68 grade downright rare IMHO. On the other hand, a 1972(d) quarter in MS67 is a common coin I believe.
But, one thing for certain - THIS SERIES IS CERTAINLY NOT BEING HYPED IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. The best PCGS clad quarter set in the world is not even registered and is virtually never even discussed. The best PCGS clad quarter set which is registered (by a board member) is also virtually never discussed and certainly not hyped. In fact, IMHO, MS (REPEAT MS) clad Wash quarters are one of the best kept secrets out there!! Hardly a word gets discussed about them from month to month, even over on the Registry board. There are probably a couple handfuls of collectors out there who seriously have studied the rarity of all the clad Wash dates in high grade. For many of these collectors, the less said the better, as they "cherry-pick" great deals. Rest assured, there has been -0- hype of clad MS Wash quarters on virtually any posts I have read over the past couple years, although a thread like this one pops up from time to time.
One final comment - I suspect sometime next year PCGS will complete its work in setting up a "global" MS Wash quarter Registry series (1932-1998). I would not be surprised to see MS clad quarters become more "mainstream" once the set becomes 32-98 and there will be quite a few collectors desireous of building a complete 32-98 collection, as I have met a few already.
Wondercoin >>
There is still no comprehensive book on this series and for the main part the existing works
just mention the clads as an after thought. There are numerous varieties which have been
very under reported. Some of these may not even exist in uncirculated condition despite be-
ing "common" in circulation. Some are quite scarce even circulated.
Virtually all of the few collections of these have been started in only the last 5 years with the
advent of the states quarters.
With all the slamming of clads and moderns and pocket change these orphans could be the
poster children for anti-hype.
solely on the picture it would not be especially valuable to me, but again, the coin
must look nicer in hand. Collectors vary too though, and most would prefer to find
these coins already slabbed in auctions. If the coin were only as nice as the picture
it probably would not bring a great deal at auction based only on its quality. If it did
bring a lot of money it would do so on some other basis.
The coin is probably as nice as its grade implies so it will bring only the going rate
which is the balance point between the tiny supply and the feeble demand. Because
this is a small immature market this balance point can appear ephemeral and can
fluctuate wildly based on small changes in the supply or demand.
Looks like that may mean somewhat less than $2,000 at the current time. Wondercoin's
guess here would likely be far better than mine.
<< <i>What's the wavy stuff on the obverse under In God We Trust? >>
Die polish lines.
Russ, NCNE
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
It is my understanding that a lucky submitter slabbed (3) 70(d) and 72(d) quarters in PCGS-MS68 as part of a larger submission. I believe I was fortunate enough to pluck off the nicest example of each date for a customer at a price somewhat in excess of the $2,000 being discussed here. Additionally, the current #1 set was also able to pluck off a pair of coins for his collection above the $2k/coin level . This left these (2) remaining coins. They appear to be slower sellers (having just failed to sell in the Bowers Baltimore sale), but, I have no doubt will sell in the not too distant future.
PCGS-MS68 clad quarters from 1970 at $2k? Crazier than PCGS-MS67FBL halves from the 1950's or early 1960's at $20,000+. Heck, even a 1960 Memorial Lincoln cent in MS67RD just sold for well over $3,000. Or, many various clad dimes from the 1990's in MS67FB at $1,000-$1,500 now? Or, how about a 1959 Lincoln cent in PR69DCAM currently closing in on $20,000 last I checked in the Heritage sale? In the context of the current coin market, does a $2,000 clad quarter in grade MS68 from the 1970's seem crazy?
Wondercoin
But then again, my wife thinks I'm crazy to pay $200-$500 for well-worn 190+ year old coins, so there you go!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I certainly wouldn't characterize anyone else's value system as crazy. I do however think it fascinating that collecting would be that competitive in a portion of the series that has been pretty unpopular since 1965. There have been 6 times as many 03 proof Sacs submitted (3061) this year than the total number of 70-D Washingtons submitted since PCGS started the pop report (517). They don't seem to be popular among submitters. One would think a $2000 bounty would excite the bounty hunters. Apparently they don't see the potential market.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
in large numbers is that the nice ones are difficult to find. Sure they aren't very popular
but if they were more available there would be more submitted even if it did cause the
price to be a lot lower. Most of these don't exist in substantial quantities in rolls since
few saw much point in saving them. The few such rolls that do exist are almost univer-
sally very unattractive with little chance of containing coins that are gem or near gem. There
is little evidence that there were collectors seeking these coins as they were issued, though
it has been reported that John J. Pittman did. This essentially leaves only the mint sets as a
possible source for most of the early eagle reverse clad quarters.
In the case of the 1970 probably 2/3 of these have been destroyed over the years for the
mint set only half and the "scarce" small date "S" cent which appears in about 10% of this
date. The remaining sets have not only been heavily picked over but have also suffered
from tarnishing. This affects the Denver quarters and dimes the least but the other coins
in this set are often dark or spotted.
In the old days there would be about 10 nice choice gem 70-D quarters in a hundred mint sets
making it one of the most common of the clad gems. Today you'll be lucky to find four or five
and the very best ones are even tougher. Perhaps more importantly was that you could go
into most larger coin shops and see thirty to eighty sets. Not today; today you'll be lucky to
find more than a handfull at a time. This all means that where a few phone calls and trips to
dealers would yield enough sets to find a superb gem twenty years ago, it will take a great
deal more effort and searching today. In another thread DHeath reports on '70 sets bringing
double bid in an auction because they are sealed and hence original. How long will it be till
this is the only way to find raw gems? What does this price imply about the difficulty of find-
ing nice choice coins in typical mint sets? And what does it imply about the real value of choice
sets- - not just original, but actually choice?