TRIMMED CARDS - PAST, PRESENT, and FUTURE
jrinck
Posts: 1,321 ✭✭
Do you think that card trimming is a thing of the past since PSA brought some honesty in to the marketplace, or are shady operators still trimming cards at the same rate they always have?
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Some trimmed cards have been slabbed, so there will be people trying to deceive PSA and other grading companies. In addition, PSA et al must also evolve with the times by looking for better detection methods in order to keep up with the new doctoring techniques.
On a side note, if a counterfeit card or doctored card is noticed inside a PSA holder, who is responsible? Even the seller could have been ripped off by another previous seller. I mean, I would think that PSA would have to take the card off the market and give to whoever last owned it, the fair market value. Otherwise, the legitimacy a slabbed card has will become worthless if there is nothing to back it up. In about 10 years, when PSA goes belly up (It could happen), all the PSA graded cards would have to be cracked open and resubmitted to the next big grading company. Who backs the cards then. This is why I always say: buy the card, not the holder.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
<< <i>With micro-trimming, the card's measurements cannot be really noticed by measuring it, since we are dealing with microns, not 1/16 of an inch. >>
there are many other ways that they determine if a card is trimmed besides measurments. a trimmed card may show one of the following: hook up or down, have one razor sharp edge, a difference in toning along the edge, a wavy look.
in the hobby. While PSA will catch 99.9% of the trimmed cards submitted
to them, the popularity of card grading (here in large part because of
PSA's quality and consistency) has also brought players into the grading
business like PRO -- a company that has no intentions of trying to spot
a trimmed card. Sure, grading companies like PRO and the trim doctors
are the "root" of this card trimming problem, but what keeps them going
are the uneducated collectors out there who are bidding & buying these
altered cards. As sad as it is to see a Mickey Mantle card in a PRO
holder, it's even worse seeing the bids and the ending prices (assuming
they're legit).
Chuck
My own experience with cards I have submitted directly from pulls is that all were graded by PSA. That is, they didn't blow it during screening. I have submitted several hundred such cards.
I can see, however, where a zealous PSA screening process could unfairly punt a card. For example, the slitting machinery in the factory could slightly be off for a couple of columns or rows of cards. This would result in the same cards being slightly under or over cut in width. The power knives could be off for a particular machine as well. This is where we usually get diamond cut cards (or at least one way to get them).
Do you think PSA or others are unfairly punting legit cards? What is your collective experience?
I can't speak from personal experience, but I have seen it mentioned
a few times on these boards where submitters have pulled cards from
packs themselves & then had them rejected due to "evidence of trimming".
It doesn't seem to happen often, but it happens. PSA seems to err on
the side of caution when it comes to a questionable card.
PeterAldridge,
I agree there are other ways to look for evidence of trimming besides measuring. Thank goodness there is. I just hope grading companies will keep adding to their arsenal of inspection techniques.
The texture of a cut, comparing colors of edges sure does make sense to me.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
<< <i>I don't really know how this "micro-trimming" is being done, but have heard that it is being done and a couple cards even made it past PSA inspections and got holdered. >>
Source??....Which cards??....or is this just more rumourmongering?
Skip
ANGEL OF HOPE
Skip
TUSTIN CA
<< <i>On a side note, if a counterfeit card or doctored card is noticed inside a PSA holder, who is responsible? >>
I can't find the page with entire guarantee statement, but there is an abreviated version of it here.
In short, if you find a card in a PSA holder that you believe is mis-graded, altered or counterfeit, or a card that has been damaged by the holder, send it back to PSA. Better yet, call or email Peter Ma or Joe Orlando and talk to them about it (they will ask you to send it to them, of course). Both have posted their phone numbers/extensions and email addresses here many times and both are more than willing to talk to anyone about an issue they have with a PSA card.
If they agree, they will make it right. I have personal experience with this that I would be happy to share, and I suspect others on the board do as well.
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JR
So can we all agree that card trimming, except for oversized cards and sheets is a thing of the past, or does it still happen.
BO still seems to uncover solid evidence that it still happens. Not sure I agree that it’s as widespread as they profess it to be, but it’s still out there. Heck, that ex-NFL guy posted a how-to video and admitted doing it.
Jim
Well, resurrecting threads from 20 years ago still happens, so how can anyone say card trimming never happens anymore?
is this a record? 20 years. And yes, trimming is alive and well
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Possibly thriving.
Can’t the new technology catch it.
They will tell you that it can.
What is the new technology you're referencing? Serious question.