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Matte Finish - Is it sand blasted?

Does anyone know how they do this? Thank You.

Comments

  • Cam40Cam40 Posts: 8,146
    My RedBook states;`Matte proofs have a granular "sandblast" surface unlike the smooth surface
    as a `brilliant proof` does.

    Sandblast in quotations may mean the dies ARE actually sandblasted to give this grainy surface.
    How else would they achieve this I,m wondering.

    I,d say ,yes, the dies are lightly sandblasted.
  • ldhairldhair Posts: 7,283 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not really sure folks know how the Lincoln matte proofs were made.
    Larry

  • Cam40, I am wondering if the dies are sandblasted or are the coins put through a sandblasting after they are struck?
  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,317 ✭✭✭✭✭
    dlimb,

    While the exact technique is not known (or maybe published)... it is widely thought that there were three or four different methods of production for these coins.

    Sandblasting I believe took place AFTER the coin was struck. For the 1909 and 1910 dates (and maybe another, I've forgotten) there might have been some sort of acid "pickling" process to get the satin/roman finishes of those dates...

    I love those coins, and used to own for a short while a PF 66 1914 quarter eagle. Wish I still had it..

    V/r,
    John
  • coinlieutenant, I bet those coins are beautiful...I have never seen one...but my imagination tells me they are...I sure wish you would have kept it too...maybe one day you will be able to get another one.
  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,317 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A dealer friend of mine cherry picked a raw 1911 5$ that he wants to submit to NGC for him. I have my eyes on that one...


    image
  • AskariAskari Posts: 3,713
    Blasting the dies only makes sense if you're only going to have a small production run, like a limited-edition art medal (and I've heard of both approaches being used with medals, which are often produced in quantities of 2000 or less). In larger runs, the dies will lose their matte very quickly. It's much less expensive to sandblast the coins after striking. Like Coinlieutenant, I've also heard the early dates were pickled.
    Askari



    Come on over ... to The Dark Side! image
  • Askari, how was the 1998 Kennedy Matte done do you think? 62,000 mintage.
  • AskariAskari Posts: 3,713
    I truly don't know. You'd have to look at quite a few of them to see whether there was noticeable die wear to the matte. I would tend to suspect it was done after striking. I'm not a Kennedy expert, but someone like Russ, who is, might have better access to the relative lore.
    Askari



    Come on over ... to The Dark Side! image
  • From David Lange's "Complete Guide To Lincoln Cents:"

    "The dies for conventional, brilliant proofs such as those coined in 1903 were polished to a fine, mirror-like finish. There was, however, a sandblasting chamber which was used to dull the finish of medals so that their design might be more easily studied without glare. This technique, pioneered at the Paris Mint only a few years before, was gaining a growing acceptance among coiners and medallists. It had been used in preparing the proof set of 1902 marking the coronation of England's King Edward VII."

    "The practice of sandblasting had yet to be extended to actual coins at the Philadelphia Mint, but the necessary device was already in place. (James Rankin) Young described it as 'a small wooden box with glass sides. A pipe on the inside blows down a fine shower of sand. The operator, wearing a big pair of mits to protect his hands, holds the coin (medal) under this stream of sand until the operation is finished, when it has a delicate frosted appearance.' "

    "Dies too were sandblasted to give them a textured surface, followed by a vigorous polishing of just their flat fields. This resulted in a contrast between brilliant fields and frosted cavities which was imparted to the finished coins. These were the frosted proofs so popular with collectors of the late 19th and early 20th Centuries."

    "Also a common practice at the U.S. Mint was the cleansing in acid of coin and medal planchets. This removed any residual grease or oxidation which may have accrued from the casting, rolling and planchet-punching processes. These planchets were then dried by tumbling them within sawdust and polished by additional tumbling against one another, sometimes with the assistance of metallic beads."

    "The combined application of sandblasting and acid baths is believed to have been behind the matte proofs coined 1908-1916, as the new designs introduced beginning in 1907, with their sculpted surfaces and irregular fields, did not lend themselves to the traditional method of proofing. The French matte process was thus applied in 1908 and subsequent years, though both the methods and the results varied somewhat from year to year. There appear to be only two variant finishes on early proof Lincoln cents, the true matte finish and the softer satin finish. It's not known for certain whether these two variants were the product of intent or a simple evolution. The author believes that the satin proofs were simply coined from the same dies as the matte proofs, but after these dies had lost their rough texture from very slight wear and additional polishing."

    "If sandblasting was used in the manufacture of proof Lincolns, it was probably in the die finishing process and not with the struck coins themselves. Even at that, the sand must have been extremely fine so as to not diminish any of the subtle details found on these coins. There is also no real evidence that acid was used on the struck coins, though it was undoubtedly a step in the normal cleansing of the unstruck planchets."

    "In short, we simply don't know exactly how the proof cents of 1909-1916 were made. Some subtle distinctions appear within particular dates and from one date to the next." image
  • cosmicdebriscosmicdebris Posts: 12,332 ✭✭✭
    Did someone say 1902 Ed VII matte proof?

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    Bill

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    09/07/2006
  • There is some interesting data here
  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,317 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great input richbeat...

    Thanks...
  • richbeat, If each coin is sandblasted individually, I can see why there is not more of the Matte Proofs...I would also think that using this method does tend to take away some of the detail and could hide some intimate details to the naked eye....Geeeee MR. Postman where is my Microscope!!!!
  • I wonder if they could have used the same technique they use today to give the silver eagles a matte finish. Every so often lightly dress up the dies by putting a blank in the press and striking it through a piece of very fine emory cloth. (The coin is sent to the reject bin.). This gives the die face a nice, fine satin finish.
  • Conder, is that the way they do the eagles today...then how would they get the more cousre texture for the matte?

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