1972 Type 2 Ikes

itsnotjustme

I routinely hear that the 1972 Type 2 Ikes are scarce, and I have not found a raw one myself. What is surprising is that the populations of Type 1 and Type 2 are neck-in-neck, both in the 80s. Granted the T2s are a grade lower on average, so if the lower grade T1s were also submitted, their pop would be higher.

Anyhow, I just expected much different numbers when I opened the report.

DHeath

Brian, the submissions mirror the value (IMO). I've got 8 or 10 rolls of 72-P's split evenly T-1, T-3, but they're not yet profitable to submit in 63 or lower. There is a raw 72 T-2 on Ebay right now at $86 with time left. It appears to be a solid MS63, maybe 64.

MSD61

It's tough to find a 72-P T-2 because of the low mint numbers it's something like 100,000 were struck. I have to agree with DHeath unless you have a really nice 72 above MS63 they're just not profitable to submit in lower grades.

khayse

Brian,

While I'm surprised that the type 1 population has kept up with the type 2,
I attribute it to the backlog of type 2 submitters. Many more people have been
told that the type 2 is rarer and have been waiting for PCGS to recognize it.
So everyone wanted to submit their type 2 for attribution when they could (some to
help sell it, some just for their collection).

As an example, I have the type 2 in my own collection attributed but not the type 1s.
Give it a couple years and hopefully the pops will better reflect reality (or maybe we'll find
the reality different than we thought).

-KHayse

supercoin

Ditto the backlog comment... about a third of the current Type 2 population is my doing.

Also keep in mind that a significant chunk of the Type 3 population is really Type 1. And will always be. There is little financial incentive to resubmit a Type 1 below MS65.

USMC_6115

Does anyone know the mintage numbers of each variety? How many Type IIs are there as apposed to Types I & III? I would say there would have to be significantly less Type IIs as they are hard to find. I'm averaging 1 Type II out of a couple hundred IKEs that I search. Also, I find an almost equal amount of Type I & III in favor of the Type III, but, the Type I are always in worse shape. Anyone else?

Tad, how did you average while you were searching?

supercoin

Sounds about the same as me, though I'm not sure I've had as much luck as you finding Type 2, most of mine were purchased already attributed.

I'm not sure I've seen a Type 1 vs Type 3 mintage estimate, there may even be more Type 1 as they were minted for a longer period of time. Both are very common in typical condition but as you note, the Type 1 are far more difficult to find nice.

The Type 3 were struck with newly improved die steel and higher relief, which I think accounts for the better quality, rather than better planchets.

Though "better" is relative when you're talking 1972 Philly Ikes. It is the key date in gem grades even when you combine all three types.

DHeath

Does anyone know the mintage numbers of each variety?

Breen published some guestimates, but I'm not sure how meaningful they are. I'll post them when I get home tonight. Supercoin's is the opinion I respect most.

USMC_6115

<< <i>Supercoin's is the opinion I respect most. >>



Me too...

MSD61

Make it me 3

USMC_6115

I got thinking about the Type I and Type II IKEs in regards to the POP Report. Purely speculation, but I THINK the Type I has such a low POP in numbers due to their typical lousy condition (not worth submitting). The Type II IKEs low POP numbers on the other hand, are simply due to it's scarceness...What do you think?

DHeath

After rereading Breen's description, he only lists the total mintage, and notes the current rarity of the type II. He indicates all the type II's were from one proof master die. Perhaps the new Ike book will include better information.

supercoin

The mintage estimate for the Type 2 is something around 100,000 based on typical die life (it is only known to be struck with only one die pair).

If that's right, since there are 76 million total minted for the date, you should find them one in 760 coins. But many of the Type 2 should have been cherry-picked out by now. So you'd expect maybe only 1 in 1500 coins by now.

They seem "easier" to find than that, so that would indicate a higher mintage.

But, I believe many millions of 1972 coins were shipped off to casinos and are effectively off the market (at least the collectible-quality market), so if the entire run of Type 2 escaped that fate (very possible since they all came from one die) that would make them a higher percentage of the remaining coins.

So... I guess I'd stick with the die life estimate as the best guess. Also Type 2 are generally found nicer than other types, which makes me think that the die likely wasn't overused past 100K coins.


massscrew, the primary reason for the low Type 1 PCGS population right now is that they only recently started attributing them. I wouldn't read too much into the pop numbers until at least a couple years have passed.

I think the true PCGS MS65 population is something like this:

Type 1 - 15%
Type 2 - 5%
Type 3 - 80%

USMC_6115

Thanks for the info Supercoin...