NCS Wins!

MrEureka · December 23, 2003 2:38AM

Wait until you see the before and after images of the SS Republic coins! Unbelievable!

Russ · December 23, 2003 2:43AM

Wins what?

Russ, NCNE

Placid · December 23, 2003 2:45AM

Send them to Russ he will post them.

nwcs · December 23, 2003 3:04AM

I'll post them here now.

MrEureka · December 23, 2003 3:05AM

Send them to Russ he will post them.

Done. Lucky Russ!

nwcs · December 23, 2003 3:05AM

1854 O before
Obverse Reverse

1854 O after
Obverse Reverse

1865 before
Obverse Reverse

1865 after
Obverse Reverse

1860 before
Obverse Reverse

1860 after
Obverse Reverse

1860 in the holder
Coin in holder

tradedollarnut · December 23, 2003 3:07AM

I liked it better before...

airplanenut · December 23, 2003 3:10AM

<< I liked it better before...

>>

...the multicolored toning!

jbsteven · December 23, 2003 3:12AM

ST

sea toning

SethChandler · December 23, 2003 3:12AM

WOW! Amazing! Love the 1865.

mgoodm3 · December 23, 2003 3:13AM

They did a nice job. Amazing that the silver held up as well as it did.

Placid · December 23, 2003 3:14AM

Just like it came from the mint.

Barry · December 23, 2003 3:37AM

I bet that stuff just peeled right off.

Blade · December 23, 2003 3:39AM

That 1854-o $10 will be Pop 2 or 1 based on PCGS census.

Thanks for the pics. Would be very interested to know the process used. They really did amazing work.

The good news is that it looks like the corrosion was minimal. But no one will mistake these for original skin coins. They definitely look cleaned... professionally cleaned, but cleaned none the less.

dragon · December 23, 2003 3:59AM

Sometimes it's hard to see just how 'stripped out' these conserved coins really appear until you hold one side by side to an original piece. Some of those gold coins don't even look like gold anymore IMO, they look like weathered brass, and that half dollar in the NGC MS61 holder looks to have no lustre left whatsoever, just bright matte like, cleaned surfaces IMO.

You can be sure that if a collector sent in a raw half dollar like the SS Republic one pictured, it would most definately be bagged for cleaning or environmental damage or both. So much for "arms length grading". I guess the arms length grading policy gets temporarily put on hold when they receive a multi million dollar conserving and grading contract and all the publicity

dragon

LAWMAN · December 23, 2003 4:01AM

I like the befores. Maybe I'm old fashioned and don't know a great deal when I see one, but, when I see that kind of change in a coin, it makes me uneasy. Isn't there a way to get the gunk off and still not make it look heavily cleaned and so minty? After all the damn thing is been laying under the ocean for 140+ years or so.

Do you ever think about these technologies having been used on every coin that really catches your eye, just that we haven't caught up to it?

nwcs · December 23, 2003 4:03AM

Thing is, if the contaminants aren't removed, further problems could develop. And some things can be done to eliminate contaminants that do not harm metal. But I'm sure they dipped them, too. But I think they look better after. And probably are better that way for the long term so long as they are not messed with further.

greghansen · December 23, 2003 4:04AM

Would be very interested to know the process used

So would I, but lots of luck getting anyone do divulge the fine details of that. I'm sure its considered quite proprietary. They will discuss general steps but as far as exact solutions, times involved, etc......'fuggedaboutit'.

To me, that job would be better than being a grader. Thats really a once in a lifetime opportunity, with a real big responsibility towards preservation of very historic artifacts.

braddick · December 23, 2003 4:07AM

<< ST

sea toning >>

Yes, but if the ship sank on purpose these are all AT.

coinguy1 · December 23, 2003 4:11AM

<< Yes, but if the ship sank on purpose these are all AT >>

Good point, Pat. But, would it matter whether someone else, who was not on the ship, intentionally sank it - would the coins be AT then? In other words, whose intent is relevant in determining whether the coins are AT

braddick · December 23, 2003 4:17AM

<< 

<< Yes, but if the ship sank on purpose these are all AT >>

Good point, Pat. But, would it matter whether someone else, who was not on the ship, intentionally sank it - would the coins be AT then? In other words, whose intent is relevant in determining whether the coins are AT

>>

True, true. It would take a contemporary of our Great, great, great Grandfather's to have known, at the end of 2003, these coins would surface and the fun begin. If the ship sanker did so for another intent then dang it, these coins are NT.
It's probably unlikely he (or she!) would have sunk the ship and also anticipated a service like NCS would appear on scene to handle these coins. The devil's in the details.

IrishMike · December 23, 2003 4:21AM

These coins are part of our national heritage, they have a story behind them albeit a sad one. If these coins are going to remain a part of history for very long they need to be conserved. This arguement pops up from time to time, but what if the Sistine Chapel or other great works of art hadn't been conserved. The fact is they wouldn't be here. As long as they are labeled from the shipwreck I could care less what or who grades them or what grade they are assigned.

Early coins get conserved and slabbed all the time and look much worse than these. Maybe we need to get past our coin collecting mentality and see something else in these coins besides hairlines, cleaning etc., grades. I see nothing with someone profiting from them as if it weren't for that motive they would still be on the floor of the ocean crudding up.

agentjim007 · December 23, 2003 4:27AM

I don't think we really want to know how they do it. It would be like watching sausage being made, you wouldn't want it after seeing whats it's been through.

Ryana · December 23, 2003 4:31AM

jbsteven · December 23, 2003 4:33AM

Could the person that sank the ship be tonecoin2003's great,great,great grandfather?

jbsteven · December 23, 2003 4:34AM

<< If not I think they should donate some of the profits from selling the coins to the communities the money was intended for. >>

good idea but seems a little late for repayment.

braddick · December 23, 2003 4:37AM

<< Could the person that sank the ship be tonecoin2003's great,great,great grandfather?

>>

No, that would mean tonecoin2003 had parents.

dcarr · December 23, 2003 4:38AM

Thanks for posting those pictures. I was most interested to see one of the silver coins.
When I look at the 1860-O half dollar, this is what I see:

The "before" pictures look to me like the coin has already undergone some "conservation" at this stage.
On the "before" reverse picture, note the black patch above the second "S" in STATES. In the "after" reverse picture, note the cloudy patch where it once was black. Also note the two corrosion pits in the denticles in that same area.

The biggest thing I noticed (looking at the "after" reverse picture) were all the corrosion pits on the Eagle's right wing.

If I were to send a coin like that (raw) to NGC, PCGS, ICG, or ANACS, not only would they not grade it MS-61, they wouldn't grade it at all (they'd send it back in a "body bag").

None the less, it is still a very cool item with a lot of historic significance.

jbsteven · December 23, 2003 4:47AM

I think as long as the coins stay in the NGC pedigreed holders then there should be no problems about where they came from and what they looked like BEFORE conservation. There might be some turning of the coins in the holders but given where they came from it seems OK to me.

braddick · December 23, 2003 5:03AM

<< I think as long as the coins stay in the NGC pedigreed holders then there should be no problems about where they came from and what they looked like BEFORE conservation. There might be some turning of the coins in the holders but given where they came from it seems OK to me. >>

Yes, but what if the new owner wants to cross into SEGS or NTC?

Blade · December 23, 2003 5:25AM

Don't get me wrong. I think there is a significant net benefit to numismatics from making these coins available. Let the new owner decide what they believe is their interest to collect these. I collect type coins, and if I want a gem Ty 1 Double Eagle, without these hoards it would be virtually impossible to get one.

I really like Jason's idea - everyone is best protected when these stay in the original holders.

291fifth · December 23, 2003 6:02AM

At the recent MSNS show I saw one of the 1857-S $20's from the S.S. Central America in its PCGS holder. While the coin looked beautiful at first glance it just did not look right after some extended viewing. It's my feeling that cleaning should be noted on the labels of all cleaned/"conserved" sea salvaged coins. Merely putting the name of the shipwreck isn't adequate consumer protection. This will be especially true 20 or more years from now when the circumstances surrounding these coins have become less common knowledge than is the case today.

quarterjack · December 23, 2003 6:08AM

Although i have never submitted any coins to NCS, they have done a fantastic job on those gold coins and really show their talents of their employees. (IMHO)

Dave

darktone · December 23, 2003 9:49AM

I like the gold better uncleaned and I would even consider buying one in it's as found condition. mike

NCS Wins!

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