Change in Grading Standards?

Ripken

I've been submitting vintage cards now for about 3 years. I generally send in 100-300 cards about 4 or 5 times per year.
My results have been fairly consistent. Generally, I'll get back about 20-30% 9's (with the occasional 10), about 50% 8's and about 20-30% 7s or less,

My last two submissions (a total of over 300 cards) have come back with a total of 2 9's among the vintage cards, about 30-40% 8's with the rest 7's or less. My most recent submission included a minimum grade of 7. I got back a total of THIRTY-EIGHT cards that did not meet the minimum grade.

I'm now in my 40s but I know my eyesight has not gone that bad. If anything, I think I'm MORE conservative than I was when I first started sending. Has anyone else had similar experiences? I think I might be ready to throw in the towel if even 9's are now next to impossible to get.

gemint

Must have gotten the grader of death both times. My last submission of 250 cards (including many vending beauties) yielded a grand total of 5 9s. It's really quite humiliating.

Skycap

My most recent grades were posted earlier this week. They came out pretty decent -- pretty much as expected. These were from the 1950's to early 1960's, 36 cards. I got 7 9's, 28 8's and 1 7. I've been submitting for about two years and have found PSA to be very consistent with my cards. I bought a few PSA cards before I ever submitted, and I feel I've always been in tune with their standards. I haven't seen any change.

I think any subtle change (from individual graders, not in PSA standards) would be easier to notice by those who submit more frequently and in higher quantities, especially with many cards from a single year or two. Mine have always been scattered across many years. For example, my submission of 36 cards above had cards from 11 different sets. I think that when there are a lot of cards from one year, it's possible that the grader(s) may set the tone with the first card or two and then make most of the cards in the submission the same grade if they appear the same. I think they may get bored by seeing many cards in a row from the same set, so once they set the tone with the first card or two (like, say, a PSA 8), they have a tendency to quickly make all that follow a PSA 8 unless it looks substantially different. Perhaps gemint and ripken were victims of this.

Skycap

Ruthfan

Skycap. I go along with your possible theory. I've never thought about that but I can see where that could possibly happen.

Mantlefan

Actually, I've had better results lately with some unexpected vintage 8's and 9's. Go figure.

mariner

I agree with Frank, I have had good results lately with more positive surprises than negative ones.

Vargha

The beauty of the conspiracy is that they get you believe that there actually isn't one. I used to believe that there wasn't one as well. I did, that is, until the black helicopters became an ever-increasing part of my life.

Ripken

The 'single set theory' won't work with my last two submissions...a wide variety of years...no more than about 10 of any one year...50s thru the early 70s. It just makes no sense to me how suddenly difficult it's been to get even a few 9s out of a bulk vintage submission. And with the # of cards returned for supposedly being less than 7, it seems as if everything that once was 9 is now 8..etc.

autosoft

I have to agree with the tougher grading or at least inconsistancy..

One of the biggest testements is that if you crack the cards and resubmit they often receive a different grade...

I submitted a batch of 1964 and when they returned some came pack PSA 6's...Which was just impossible..I crack than and resubmitted and several of the previous graded Psa 6's are now PSA 8 NQ..

Go figure....

Ripken

I've thought about resubmitting, but on common cards from the mid-60s up, the $7 or $8 additional means I've already got $15-16 invested (plus the cost of the card) for something that isn't worth that kind of $ unless it's for a low pop card that goes from 8 to 9.
I think the clearest evidence lies in the fact that my min. grade rejects have gone from around 10% to about 25%. Wasn't there a thread on here a couple months ago where someone mentioned that at a trade show summit, big dealers were asking PSA to, in effect, lower the number of higher grade cards being issued to the rest of us? Or am I dreaming?

Skycap

Ripken, perhaps the cards got the grades they deserved.

Skycap

PlayBall

Ripken,

Here is a recently submitted card, and one that was submitted many moons ago. Do you think the newly graded card was subject to tougher standards? Not me, and I don't believe their grading has gotten any stricter as a whole in the past few years.

downgoesfrazier

skycap,
Perhaps they didn't. Of late cards of like quality from the same vending case have received quite different grades when shipped in two different invoices. This is always subject to the grader you draw but is what is inherently flawed with "grading". Two invoices of virtually the same 20 cards can draw all 9's & 10's or mostly 8's with a sprinkling of 9's...that's a pretty big monetary impact. You made a great point about how the difference would be more noticeable from one grader to another--or they're interpretation of their standards may vary--but it is certainly not "subtle".

<<<I think they may get bored by seeing many cards in a row from the same set, so once they set the tone with the first card or two (like, say, a PSA 8), they have a tendency to quickly make all that follow a PSA 8 unless it looks substantially different.>>>

I, and anyone with a brain stem who pays grading fees, should have a real problem with this...this is the most negative implication I've seen posted here or elsewhere in months. It's only scary because I deep down feel you are correct.

dgf

Treetop

The way I see it is that the grading standards are no tougher or lenient than when created. Card grading is an opinion and subjective.

There will never be “true” consistency in grading with humans involved, since it’s the graders and how they “see” the standards. The graders vision of the standards can change day to day, hour by hour. That is why there is no consistency in grading. Has nothing to do with the standards.

In most cases you can resubmit, until the grade fits and I’m sure PSA enjoys the $$ generated from that. But causes great heartburn with me.......


Mark

Vargha

Mark -- You have lapsed into total denial now. That is just what the conspiratorialists want.

Treetop

Mark -- You have lapsed into total denial now. That is just what the conspiratorialists want.

That's exactly what my doctor said. And he also said if I was to be cured of these delusions of conspiratorialists, I should start collecting 1975 Topps Baseball cards. Is this what your doctor told you?

Vargha

Believe me, collecting 1975 Topps is the symptom of a much greater set of problems than just delusion.

(Geez . . . I must learn how to spell right the first time.)

Skycap

Ripken said "I think I might be ready to throw in the towel if even 9's are now next to impossible to get."

Judging by my experience and several other collectors I know, 9's are still very much possible if the card warrants it. PSA has been very much on the mark for my own cards that I felt in advance were worthy of a 9. When preparing submissions, typically there will be some cards that I believe are a virtual rock-solid 9, others are "tweeners" that could go either way, and others for which I'm anticipating an 8. Of course, the results are never prefectly in line with my own assessments but reasonably close. PSA has been very consistent in my two years of experience with them.

I bet if if some of the collectors here saw the cards that Ripken thought should be 9's but weren't, they could find the defects/problems that would preclude them from earning a 9 by PSA's grading standards.

Skycap

thegemmintman

Ripken, if the grade don't fit you must resubmit (Johnny Cochrane's advice to card collectors).

mojorob

I heard Ripkin mention that he places min. grade requirements on his submissions.
How exactly does that work, if I may ask??
I am a NEWBIE to the PSA way of life.
For anyone that answers.....MANY THANKS!!
I greatly appreciate it.

qualitycards

MOJO - Quite simply, you state the minimum that you require for the card to be slabbed. If it meets or exceeds that grade the card will be holdered. If it does not the card is returned w/ your order in the card saver. You will have to pay the grading fee either way.
Some large submitters of modern cards utilize this procedure as a newer card in an "8" is hard to sell, and would be easier for the dealer to sell the excess cards in a bulk raw lot. And to crack each card individually out of the holder takes some time...jay

mojorob

Thanks a lot Quality.........for taking the time to answer my question.
Very kind of you!!

Mojorob