If GAI is so good, then why did my '84 Donruss "Unopened Packs" have '83 Donruss in them?

Davino

Just opened 2(out of three that I have), both are '83's. What a pisser...

Basilone

youve got the show some scans of that...that is crazy

NHLfightguy

I think that just happened to another person here. I recall reading a post about this very same thing from a gai pack of 84 D having 83 cards in it........

toppsgun

Merry Christmas from Steve Rocchi and Mike Baker.

qualitycards

Its probably not GAI's fault. They could be factory mis-wraps that look identical to '84 Donruss. The only way GAI would know the contents is to open them. ...jay

toppsgun

Jay, then why grade packs? They are supposed to verify they've been unopened and are in fact what they purport to be. Pack grading is a farce.

This is the death kneel to GAI, at least to the pack grading division.

theBobs

Another instance of this issue...

SUPERPUNK813

I purchased a sealed 1978 Topps 30 pack "fun bag" a couple months ago and all of the six Hockey packs inside had 1978/79 wrappers and 1976/77 cards inside! I did pull some nice star cards and semi-stars that graded PSA 9 so im sure that they hadn't been re-sealed. Also, about a year ago i bought a 1978 Topps "fun bag" and all six Hockey packs had 1976/77 wrappers but 1978/79 cards inside so i think that sometimes the card companys just put whatever is on hand in these bags/packs. Has anyone else ever seen this?



Paul.

1420sports

I thought that Donruss had a lot of 1983 inside 1984 packs. Only thru the grapevine though ....

curmudgeon

I have mixed feelings about this one, especially in light of the previous thread about this same topic. If the pack was miswrapped (i.e factory using '84 wrappers for '83 cards), then the seal would not show tampering and GAI is probably not at fault. However, if part of the puzzle piece is visible or "seen through" to the point where you can identify it, then they should note that the puzzle matches the 1983 set as part of their authentication process, and reject it or label it accordingly on the flip. Same would be true if they could see the cards-- for example, it would not be difficult to discern at least the color and format of the card backs to know if the card year matched the wrapper.

qualitycards

<< <i>Jay, then why grade packs? They are supposed to verify they've been unopened and are in fact what they purport to be. Pack grading is a farce. >>


TG - In cases of miswraps it is impossible to know the contents without opening it. Overall I think slabbing the packs are a good idea. Not too sure about the grade aspect though. With that said I do not own any GAI graded packs. I like to know whats inside, so I'll just stick w/ graded cards where you can view both sides of the card...jay

grilloj39

qualitycards...agreed...although I am a big fan of GAI, I have never purchased a graded pack...I am just not interested in them, plain and simple. Assigning grades to packs never did make much sense to me, but I am not a pack collector. An "authenticated unopened" grade just seems more easier to comprehend I guess. I just enjoy collecting vintage raw and graded cards.

Davino

Thanks you guys for all the salient points written above! I thought that I had read a thread about this recently, and, lo & behold, here I am with the same situation. The dealer said that this was the first time he had sold "GAI" packs and that he knows the head of the company and would send him an email, I'll let you guys know what they say after I hear from them(GAI).

Thanks,

Dave

gemint

I'm not too familiar with 1984 Donruss packs but it is not unheard of for the factories to swap wrappers. This happened in 1976 when Topps ran out of the '1976 SERIES' wrappers before the production run was complete and substituted the nearly identical looking 'ALL 660 CARDS IN ONE SERIES!' wrapper originally used for the 1974 packs. It's difficult to say whether GAI should try to peek through the wrapper to see what's inside. On the one hand, they could confirm the correct year is enclosed and possibly identify the series in pre-1974 packs but then submitters may not want them fumbling around with the packs and risking wrinkling the wrapper or damaging the pack.

1420sports

Or, GAI could simply refuse to grade the 84 Donruss packs. If this is the second time a wrong pack was graded, it is time to stop. I cannot see GAI being at fault if the Donruss corporation was placing 83 cards inside 84 packs.

qualitycards

Perhaps this is the reason that PSA never ventured into the pack grading game...jay

1420sports

I am much too curious to have any unopened packs laying around.

gaspipe26

Like PSA has never mislabeled anything before. Cut me a break all you GAI bashers. I can name many years that have miswraps. As Jay said , unless they opened it how can they be 100% sure. I think pack grading is great for pack collectors. At least they know the pack hasnt been tampered with.

mcastaldi

1420> "Or, GAI could simply refuse to grade the 84 Donruss packs. If this is the second time a wrong pack was graded, it is time to stop. I cannot see GAI being at fault if the Donruss corporation was placing 83 cards inside 84 packs. "

This sort of touches on the philosophical questions I was going to raise.

Let's look at a scenario -
Let's assume that back in 1984, Donruss shipped from their factory a certain unspecified number of packs which actually contained cards from 1983.

They were shipped from Donruss in 1984 and are presumably untampered with in the intervening time. In this case, are these not legitimate 1984 Donruss packs?

The way I see it, this is one of two possible scenarios - the other being that the packs were tampered with and contents switched. I seem to remember back in 1984 and 1985, 84D were really tough to get as people were hoarding the unopened stuff or it was otherwise more scarce than it should have been.

If Mark Murphy is truly the authority on unopened material, I think his comments would be instructive. The 84D issue is recent enough to have good first-hand sources.

Anyway. . .

goodriddance189

how can GAI possibly be blamed here? to reiterate what everyone else said, they had no way of knowing that donruss packed out 83 cards in 84 packs

1420sports

Mike - good points. I would like to know what happened with 84 Donruss, if anything at all.

Another scenario may be that the unopened packs were tampered with and resealed with 83's so brilliantly that GAI and Mark Murphy did not even realize it. It happens on PSA slabs, as we all know.

beefcake210

<< <i>Another scenario may be that the unopened packs were tampered with and resealed with 83's so brilliantly that GAI and Mark Murphy did not even realize it. It happens on PSA slabs, as we all know. >>



Generally, the point of resealing packs is to not only pull the good cards but to reseal them so the future buyer doesn't know he got a bum pack. Putting 83 Donruss cards in an 84 Donruss wrapper kind of defeats the purpose, unless the purpose was to embarrass GAI. In which case, a note written on a card would be far more effective.

goodriddance189

<< <i>

<< <i>Another scenario may be that the unopened packs were tampered with and resealed with 83's so brilliantly that GAI and Mark Murphy did not even realize it. It happens on PSA slabs, as we all know. >>



Generally, the point of resealing packs is to not only pull the good cards but to reseal them so the future buyer doesn't know he got a bum pack. Putting 83 Donruss cards in an 84 Donruss wrapper kind of defeats the purpose, unless the purpose was to embarrass GAI. In which case, a note written on a card would be far more effective. >>



too many conspiracy theories here. this isnt WIWAG, part 2. its a simple mistake on Donruss' part, not GAI's. heck ive opened modern fleer baseball packs that had fleer ultra BASKETBALL cards. if anyone remembers a few years back, there was a report in Beckett about a collector that pulled a 1/1 Cal Ripken black diamond bat card out of a pack. imagine his surprise though, when he found that card in a FLEER ULTRA pack. mistakes happen.

schr1st

After getting my initial email from GAI, I've heard nothing else from them about my 83-84 Donruss pack. Send me a Private message, and we can compare notes.

qualitycards

<< <i>pulled a 1/1 Cal Ripken black diamond bat card out of a pack. imagine his surprise though, when he found that card in a FLEER ULTRA pack. >>


GR189 - This info is even more incredible! A guy gets an Upper Deck Black Diamiond 1/1 card out of a Fleer Ultra pack? ...jay

goodriddance189

jay, i think UD and Fleer had the same distributor, that's the only logical reason i can think of

1420sports

its a simple mistake on Donruss' part, not GAI's

that is exactly what I thought in the first place. I think that GAI, although not as big, is just as accurate a grading company as PSA. I have no problems with either company.

NickM

Factory screwups happened all the time at Donruss. In 1987, I opened 2 wax boxes that were purchased at Smart & Final (from a case that was unsealed in front of me) that had the correct year's cards but the prior year's puzzle. They also used to (especially in 1989) have problems distributing the correct number of cards to each pack, resulting in 15 card packs containing anywhere from 9 to 18 cards. This was again with unopened boxes taken from fresh cases at major retail distributors (Toys R Us and Smart & Final).

Nick

Fuzz

This is not a screw up here or even a mis-wrap. All of the early Donruss issues were available in "other year" wrappers. These were left over card inventory that was sold later and wrapped when the machines had been refitted to next years wrappers. Hard-core pack guys have known about this forever. I suggest you contact Paul Wright via GAI as I know he collected, catalogued and even had for sale most of these variations back at the time. Donruss took so much flak they even went to a "generic" pitcher wrapper that comes in red. blue or orange to dump prior years inventory. I suspect that I have some of that stuff around some where but could probably not identify what was what. I suspect that they attribute by the wrapper.
It is almost impossible to tell what is in those packs without opening them. I suspect authentic packs just a mis-labeling of the submitter or a lack or knowledge. I am not even sure that they would attribute such a variety. No mystery, no conspiracy, really not even a mistake. Just a poor marketing idea to maximize profits. The earlier poster is also right in that there are several Topps years where "varieties" like this exist.
Fuzz

Noname

That's a shame. I'm sure you would have been happy if they were all 1982 Donruss packs.

Davino

<< <i>After getting my initial email from GAI, I've heard nothing else from them about my 83-84 Donruss pack. Send me a Private message, and we can compare notes. >>



I'm not sue how to "pm". I have still have heard NOTHING!

Wabittwax

This is a little off topic but this thread reminded me of this. About six months ago I opened a 1979 Topps Bulk Vending case. Those cases are basically 9 rows of unprotected cards. Underneath the rows is a piece of cardboard so that the bottom rows don't touch the bottom on the box. Well after taking all the cards out of the box, I lifted up that piece of cardboard to break down the box, and I found 4 1980 Topps Rod Carew's and about 5 1985 Topps cards. The bottom of the case was still sealed and it wouldn't make sense for somebody to take out the 8500 cards, put the cards underneath there, then put the 8500 cards back. Plus the 8500 card were still tight like vending so I could tell that they haven't been moved. So I'm puzzled as to how this happened. Obviously the 1979 Topps weren't put into that case until 1985 or after, but where were they kept in the meantime? And where did the Carew's come from? Were they sitting around for years at the Topps factory too? If anyone has some inside knowledge or theory's on this, I would appriciate it.

wlf3

All of the companies used to issue leftovers in the following years' wrappers in bulk as well as miswraps and bulk vending cases, etc in the 70s and 80s. They were producing so much that they couldn't sell it all so they wrapped it up and shipped it off. It's not at all uncommon. look at this issue another way.... as someone mentioned already, why replace a $25 pack with the previous years cards? also we're seeing multiple occurances of the exact same senario, 1983s in 1984 wrappers... so either it's legit or someone found a way to tamper a fairly tamperproof item. Mark is still one of the best in the industry and like anyone else he is proned to miss something sometime, but highly unlikely it'd be repeatedly.