Trivia Question - Win a Free Coin! WINNER!

nencoin

The first correct answer wins a Great Britain 1800 Maundy 1d NGC MS63. The answer must be sent via PM ONLY!!!! Any answers given on the board will not count. Also, only one answer per individual allowed. No dealers, please. Good luck!

Question: Who struck the first British "milled" coin and when?

Congratulations to Lordmarcovan for providing the first correct answer! Eloye Mestrelle in 1561. Thank you to all who participated.

cosmicdebris

Did I win yet?

ajaan

PM sent

ajaan

Also, nice to see you over here on the darkside. There are many of us over here who purchase coins from NEN.

nencoin

I admittedly spend most of my message board time (which is ten minutes for lunch) on the U.S. board, but we'll certainly make a concerted effort to participate over here on a regular basis. By the way, I am receiving the guesses from y'all...thanks! I'll be sure to post the correct answer once we receive it.

Chris

ajaan

Bill, I guess we didn't win.

lordmarcovan

I posted an answer that I got through a little searching. I thought I knew the when, but wasn't sure of the who. So I will be learning something out of this.

If my answer is correct, I pledge to do a giveaway of equal value, since I am a part-time dealer and didn't see that exclusionary note until after I'd replied.

Of course, I could be wrong in my guess, too...

spinaker2000

PM'ed

1jester

That is one beautiful coin you're giving away, Chris!!! By the way, it's nice to see you over here.

cosmicdebris

I took my answer right out of the spinks. Whatzzzzzzzzzzzzzup?

MacCrimmon

It was a trick question!!!

lordmarcovan

Had to be. The obvious answer was too accessible.

spinaker2000

I got my answer from Spink too, 1950 1st edition!! Pg. 7

laurentyvan

You're refering to the gent that was hanged?

MSD61

PM'd ya....But I bet I'm too bloody late

spinaker2000

<< <i>You're refering to the gent that was hanged? >>



That was my answer.

MSD61

<< <i>

<< <i>You're refering to the gent that was hanged? >>



That was my answer. >>

nencoin

Edited above to declare the winner to be Lordmarcovan...congratulations!

laurentyvan

He shoots..... LordM scores!

ajaan

Accepting the award on lordmarcovan's behalf is . . . ajaan! Chris, you can just send the coin to me.

MacCrimmon

A hearty congrats to LordM !!!!

1jester

Congrats, indeed, meLord!

python

LordM, congrats.

cosmicdebris

Congrats LM! Great Giveaway Chris.

lordmarcovan

Thank you!



Terry- you just missed it! Heh!

I know this because he too posted the correct answer (on the board, and not in a PM) just after I sent my PM, and I saw his reply before he realized he wasn't supposed to post it in the open and he edited it out.

Terry's not the only one who slipped up: I am a dealer (albeit part-time, on a modest scale) and I did not read the "no dealers" clause until after I'd PM'ed my answer, so stay tuned... as mentioned above, I pledged to do a giveaway of equal value, so I do not profit unduly from NEN's generosity.

Gee, aren't Terry and I great at following directions? LOL

NEN, I already had a high opinion of y'all and your inventory, but now your stock has risen even higher.

cosmicdebris

Ok so who has the full story on this Eloye Mestrelle from 1561? My Spinks only ( 2003 edition ) mentions Charles the II and 1660.

lordmarcovan

I found the answer with a web search- as I mentioned previously, I actually did learn something, here- I knew it was during the reign of Elizabeth I, and in the 1560's, but I did not know who. The name "Briot" popped up in my head, but in my initial research, I soon remembered that Briot was during the reign of Charles I.

I don't remember what page gave me the answer, but as I recall, I did a Google search on "Britain first milled coinage", or some such. Using Mestrelle's name as a keyword might also bring satisfactory results.

I have decided what my promised spinoff giveway will be, so stay tuned for that.

MacCrimmon

The local Teamsters, Hammered No. 666, didn't like the idea of Mestrelle and his fancy machinery (screw press), so they ran him off and then strung him up!!! Was the counterfeiting charge trumped up? Hmmmmmm! Probably!

lordmarcovan

My spinoff giveaway is operational now.

MSD61

Here's the full story lads,


Mestrelle's Coinage

Milled coins were minted for the first time in 1561, in the reign of Elizabeth I. A screw press powered by horses was used in their manufacture, under the supervision of a Frenchman, Eloye Mestrelle. The quality of the coins was vastly superior to the normal hammered coinage, but production was much slower. Mestrelle was also resented as an interloper by the mint workers because of his nationality and unpopular because his machinery was perceived as a threat to their continued employment. After ten years Mestrelle was dismissed and the milled coinage ceased. Later Mestrelle turned to counterfeiting, for which he was hanged in 1578.

In gold, the milled coinage consisted of a limited number of half pounds, value ten shillings, crowns of five shillings, and extremely rare half-crowns of two shillings and sixpence, all beautifully styled and well-struck and circular. However, though produced throughout the reign, there were no milled versions of the gold angel, half angel and quarter angels, all of which had the same respective values but different designs. The gold milled coinage is found with two mintmarks, a star or a lis.

The silver shilling was over 30 mm diameter, and suffered slightly by a much shallower relief, particularly on the reverse. This may have been a result of the thicker metal flan used. Only one mintmark, the star, is known and it is thought that they were only minted in 1561. A slightly smaller version from the same period is usually better struck.

Briot's Coinage

After the departure of Mestrelle almost sixty years elapsed before the Mint was prepared to experiment with another milled coinage. Again it was the work of a Frenchman, Nicholas Briot, who joined the mint as chief engraver in 1628 during the reign of Charles I. His coinage was of an extremely high standard, in contrast with the hand-made hammered coinage which was generally of poor quality. The first series was minted in 1631-32 and included all the gold denominations.

A second series consisting of only silver coins was produced in 1637-39. Unfortunately, Briot and his milled coinage were as unpopular in the mint as Mestrelle, and probably for the same reasons. In 1635 Briot was appointed as Master of the mint in Scotland where a further series of milled Scottish coins were produced between 1637 and 1642. Briot's son-in-law, John Falconer, was associated with him in this coinage. The coins were similar but those of Briot are normally marked with a B and those of Falconer with an F.

Briot was also responsible for a series of unadopted pattern coins in silver and gold, which included silver groats, threepences and half groats (two pences). Some of these coins saw circulation.

Pierre Blondeau and the designs of David Ramage and Thomas Simon

In 1651 the Commonwealth authorities, who had received favourable reports about Continental milled coins, invited Peter Blondeau from Paris to bring his machinery to London for trials. He produced pattern halfcrowns, shillings and sixpences in silver, all bearing the date 1651. A series of halfcrown and sixpence milled patterns were also designed by an Englishman, David Ramage.

However, it was not until 1656 that Oliver Cromwell, as Lord Protector, ordered the minting of coins bearing his portrait. They were produced on the machines of Peter Blondeau, from designs by Thomas Simon (also known as Thomas Symonds. Two gold denominations were minted, the smaller and most common being the broad, a forerunner of the guinea. The other was a 50 shilling coin. Neither coin seems to have entered circulation and are regarded as patterns. They were dated 1656, the same year that Blondeau returned to Paris.

The Change to a Milled Coinage

By the time of the restoration of Charles II in 1660, milling machines were poised to take over the minting of coins. Initially hammered coins continued in production together with some milled twopence and penny coins. From 1662 onwards the production of hammered coins ceased and henceforth all coins were machine made. In 1662 first the silver crown was minted, to be followed in 1663 by a gold coin valued initially at 20 shillings, and two other silver coins, the halfcrown and shilling.

The gold coinage of Charles II was treated as bullion and fluctuated in value above its nominal value. For example, despite a weight reduction in the intervening years it reached a value of 22 shillings in 1680. The name guinea later applied to this coin was unofficial, because much of the gold came from Guinea in Africa. At the outset it was regarded as a pound coin, worth 20 shillings, and the multiple pieces, now referred to as five and the two guineas, first introduced in 1668 and 1664 respectively, were officially five pounds and two pounds. All these coins were designed by John Roettier, chief engraver at the mint.

The so-called "Undated Maundy" silver coins of four, three, two and one pence were designed by Thomas Simon shortly before his death and introduced circa 1664-65. Despite their incorrect association with the Maundy ceremony they were currency coins. Strangely, it was not until 1674 that the denominations were completed, with the issue of a milled sixpence.

cosmicdebris

Excellent information. Thanks for sharing.

lordmarcovan

(never mind)

Didn't mean to post a message here again.