Help needed on a Meiji era yen.

satootoko

In all the references I've seen, the "Gin" countermark affixed to certain trade dollars and silver ¥1 coins at the Osaka Mint are positioned to the left of the space between the "ichi" and "yen" characters. The seller has substantial feedback without a neg, and "guarantees" the genuineness of his coins. Still, he is in Canada, where many counterfeit Japanese coins originate.

I don't see any obvious problems, except that the top of the Gin mark is just about where the reference books indicate the bottom should be. The opening bid is quite high per Krause, but very conservative per the JNDA catalog.

lordmarcovan

<< <i>Help needed on a Meiji era yen. >>



Gesundheit!

sumnom

All my references are on a ship somewhere out on the Pacific right now but I recollect that "gin" marks can be be on iether side of the "ichi en". Am I wrong on this?

satootoko

Gin marks on the left were struck by the Osaka Mint, those on the right by the Tokyo Mint. It's the vertical location on this one that has me puzzled - every picture in my references has the mark about one diameter higher.

sumnom

I see.

I remember reading that Japanese silver yen were circulating in Korea even after they were pulled from circulation in Japan. Is that right? Were the yen circulating in Korea marked in any special way?

Stork

I think they were hand stamped...this may explain some off positions? I did see a couple pictures where the mark was a little lower, though not as low as this one. There is even supposed to be one (I can't remember where it is kept--my books are at work right now) that has the gin mark on both sides. It is considered to be a mint error by the employee doing the stamping.

I know you have seen way more of these than I have, so if you are suspicious, then so am I! Does the seller have a return policy? If so maybe you look at it in hand to get a better idea.

As I read it, the Japanese government wanted to return to the gold standard and the silver yen were to be exchanged over a period of a few years for their gold counterparts. The silver yen so collected were either melted or sold to other countries for their bullion/silver content. To prevent the same silver yen from being traded in for gold more than once the gin (literally 'silver') mark was placed. Or something like that.


Cathy

shirohniichan

<< <i>I see.

I remember reading that Japanese silver yen were circulating in Korea even after they were pulled from circulation in Japan. Is that right? Were the yen circulating in Korea marked in any special way? >>



As Cathy pointed out, silver yen coins whose legal tender status had been withdrawn became subsidiary coins under the gold yen. Demonetized silver coins were stamped "gin" and sent to Korea, Taiwan, and other Japanese spheres of influence.

Rose in his book Chopmarks says there's no proof the location of the mints doing the countermarking had anything to do with whether the gin counterstamp went on the left or right. This goes against Krause, and I don't know of any documentary evidence to back up Krause's claim.

Stork

I have my limited library now...

'Modern Japanese Coinage' (by Michael Cummings) is where I read about the right vs. left regarding the Tokyo and Osaka mints.

'Japanese Coinage' (by Jacobs and Vermeule) does not go into such detail, and in fact, just states that the gin marks would allow "that bankers dealing in these yen pieces would not fell the necessity of testing or chopping the metal before accepting them".

However, given the silver to gold exchange going on it does make sense that the gin marks were placed to identify the coins already traded in, then released to other countries. Plus, the gin mark didn't seem to stop some of the coins from acquiring chopmarks along the way too!

The Bank of Japan has a Meiji 24 with both the right and left gin stamp, by the way (or at least it did when the book was written!)


Cathy