Trends- totals of state quarters graded

darktone

Did anyone else look at that chart on page 40 of this weeks Trends? It appears as if ANACS and NGC are much tougher graders on the uncirculated quarters than PCGS. PCGS has graded a total of 6,890 at MS68 or better and NGC has only graded 28 and ANACS has graded none this high! Sure PCGS has graded more coins than ANACS and NGC but only about 4 1/2 times as many. They also have a comparrison of the proofs but that is for another thread. mike

wondercoin

Darktone: Hypothetical question for you -

1. A dealer hands PCGS 1,000 carefully screened 2002(p) state quarters and requests a minimum grade of MS68 for the lot.

2. PCGS slabs just 125 coins MS68 and returns 875 coins as not fit for the MS68 grade.

3. The PCGS pop report then shows 125 fresh MS68 coins being made without even a single MS66 or MS67 also being slabbed. Additionally, these 875 coins never show up anywhere on the pop report.

Now, please explain how this situation (hypothetical) supports your assertion that ANACS may grade state quarters tougher than PCGS because ANACS has failed to slab a single coin MS68. Seems to me that if ANACS were lucky enough to get a 1,000 state quarter bulk submission under the same rules, it is just as possible they would grade many more of the coins MS68 than PCGS did - right?


Wondercoin

Skipper53

Are they trying to make up for a reputation of being too generous ?

darktone

wondercoin, I see your point with bulk submissions but since that is an unknown for all three grading services I don't know how you could figure that into the equation? For all we know ANACS and NGC have had as a high of percentage of bulk submissions with the same grade requirements as PCGS did. mike

wondercoin

Mike: If PCGS slabbed 6,890 MS68 state quarters and ANACS -0-, I think it is safe to conclude ANACS has not seen many, if any 1,000 coin state quarter bulk submission lots

I can certainly tell you that I've never been offered a single ANACS state quarter in any grade and I have bought a few PCGS state quarters in my travels!!

Wondercoin

darktone

<< <i>I can certainly tell you that I've never been offered a single ANACS state quarter in any grade and I have bought a few PCGS state quarters in my travels!! >>

Well maybe if you never seen one they are grading harder than PCGS? I have never had a state quarter graded and slabbed by anyone. Although I did get a free one from PCGS a couple of years ago but it did not have a grade on it. mike

darktone

ttt- I thought more members would be a little surprised at the numbers of these graded by the big three in the higher grades? mike

jbsteven

to me this means that people MUCH prefer PCGS graded moderns (quarters).

I think if Mitch has anything to do with it there will be at least 5-10 fold as many graded in PCGS slabs.

darktone

jb- thanks for the input but it is the percentage of high grade examples that makes me wonder not the total graded by each service. mike

I also wanted to add that if NGC and ANACs had graded a higher percentage of MS68+ would everyone just assume they graded looser?

jbsteven

<< <i>I also wanted to add that if NGC and ANACs had graded a higher percentage of MS68+ would everyone just assume they graded looser >>



I would guess we would think they graded looser. I think it has been established that PCGS graded moderns bring MUCH better money so a PCGS ms68 will bring more money than a NGC/ANACS ms68. I am sure Mitch could verify this. I know that when I what certain coins to bring as much as they can I will send them to PCGS. This I believe comes from epople generally considering PCGS plastic is worth more.

Personally when I have Morgan and Mercury dimes for my collection I want them in PCGS plastic.

nucklehead

<< <i>to me this means that people MUCH prefer PCGS graded moderns (quarters).

I think if Mitch has anything to do with it there will be at least 5-10 fold as many graded in PCGS slabs. >>

flaminio

There's a lot of factors, but ANACS is very tough on moderns. To fill out an order I sent along my 2003 mint set SQs to ANACS, and what did I get? 63s and 64s! These were still sealed in the US Mint plastic.

And don't even ask about the 1982-D Washington Half....

(But as long as you did -- there's a PCGS 69 on eBay right now for $650. If anyone is feeling lucky, if you can cross that into an ANACS 69 holder I'll give you $1300 for it -- double your money.)

darktone

<< <i> I would guess we would think they graded looser. I think it has been established that PCGS graded moderns bring MUCH better money so a PCGS ms68 will bring more money than a NGC/ANACS ms68. I am sure Mitch could verify this. I know that when I what certain coins to bring as much as they can I will send them to PCGS. This I believe comes from epople generally considering PCGS plastic is worth more. >>

Yes, no question that PCGS coins bring more money in almost all series modern and classic. But as you said you guess they(NGC/ANACS) are graded looser but are they really looser in MS68+ state quarters? the pop reports make me think otherwise or at least puts up a big question mark? By the way I don't collect these coins- I just was just amazed at the population difference in these grades and thought this to be a worth while topic. mike

wondercoin

JB: There have been very few non-PCGS high graded Mint State Quarters that I have ever seen sell, so it is difficult to conclude what they might fetch in an auction. I would think this is an area of the modern market ANACS and NGC would certainly like a piece of. Of course, NGC has solid market share in the modern proof arena.

Consider this though - let's assume ANACS just graded an MS69 MD or NH state quarter (or virtually any other state dated 1999-2001). Now, the MS68 version of these coins sell for hundreds dollars, but, a pop 1 PCGS-MS69 coin would likely sell for many, many thousands of dollars. Now, if I was considering bidding on the coin in the ANACS holder and concluded the coin would not likely cross to PCGS-MS69, then I would personally be valuing the coin at so many hundreds of dollars only. Now, if I thought the coin would probably cross (and was super for the grade) - there would still be the issue of whether PCGS would cross it. What if PCGS asked my permission to crack the coin out of the holder to inspect the rim before making a final decision on the cross - would I agree to that? What if the coin came out of the holder and had some minor rim damage that would keep the coin out of a PCGS-MS69 holder? Then again, what if it was "killer" for the grade out of the holder? So, would a bid of roughly 50% of the PCGS value of an MS69 make perfect sense under the circumstances? And, if you agree a bid of 50% does make sense, would an owner of a "killer" MS69 state quarter be motivated to slab it anywhere other than PCGS at this time in the first place? What would it take for ANACS to capture serious market share of the high grade modern market?

Wondercoin

braddick

A check on eBay will also conclude that SEGS grades very few, if any Ikes. PCGS (and, to a lesser degree, NGC) grade out the bulk of all Ikes submitted. Why is that? Is SEGS strict on Ikes? (No!)

Collectors favor particular Grading Services for certain Series. State quarters are heavily favored in PCGS holders. It might be of preceived value or it might be PCGS has an aggressive State quarters Registry (ANACS, of course, does not).

ANACS not grading any State quarters in MS68 is not direct or even indirect proof they grade State quarters on a tighter standard. It's interesting trivia, but is probably chalked up to the fact that (unlike your statistic of four to one) PCGS sees dozens of State quarters to ANACS one. I would also add it is the Collector who is utilizing ANACS much more than Dealers and Dealers, to turn a profit, are only submitting extremely choice MS68ish State quarters in for grading via PCGS.

darktone

Braddick, what about NGC? total graded 11,296 and only 28 ms68 or higher- less than a 1/4 of 1%. PCGS has graded a total of 65,303 with 6,890 ms68 or higher- almost 10% grade at 68+. mike

braddick

<< <i>Braddick, what about NGC? total graded 11,296 and only 28 ms68 or higher- less than a 1/4 of 1%. PCGS has graded a total of 65,303 with 6,890 ms68 or higher- almost 10% grade at 68+. mike >>

Excellent point. Right off the bat I can't tell you why NGC has not awarded more of these as MS68.

Anyone? It's difficult to believe NGC is tighter on State quarters than PCGS but that would be the first conclusion I'd come up with (without further digging).

jbsteven

<< <i>what about NGC? total graded 11,296 and only 28 ms68 or higher- less than a 1/4 of 1%. PCGS has graded a total of 65,303 with 6,890 ms68 or higher- almost 10% grade at 68+ >>



answer:

Mitch

braddick

<< <i>

<< <i>what about NGC? total graded 11,296 and only 28 ms68 or higher- less than a 1/4 of 1%. PCGS has graded a total of 65,303 with 6,890 ms68 or higher- almost 10% grade at 68+ >>

answer: Mitch >>

mdwoods

Around 5000 or more of the PCGS MS68 coins were for 2002. A phenomenol year for state quarters, as anyone who submitted coins last year will tell you. NGC doesn't grade moderns as tough from what I have seen. Not that they aren't consistent, I just think they aren't as tough.

wondercoin

"what about NGC? total graded 11,296 and only 28 ms68 or higher- less than a 1/4 of 1%. PCGS has graded a total of 65,303 with 6,890 ms68 or higher- almost 10% grade at 68+ >>
answer:
Mitch"

My short answer:

Mark Woods hit the nail on the head - 2002 especially, and to a lesser extent 2001, is where the vast majority of PCGS-MS68 coins were graded as these coin come exceptionally nice. A quick review of NGC's census reveals NGC has seen relatively very few of these coins at all. It appears to me NGC may not have even received a single major bulk submission of 2002 MS state quarters - look at how few 2002 MS state quarters have even graded at NGC and draw your own conclusions. Also, assuming very few bulk submissions, what you have is simply scattered collector coins being submitted over at NGC - again, by bulk's very nature the low end coins never make it in the pop report as I mentioned earlier.

And, my answer is not intended to suggest NGC does not slab MS state quarters strictly - as I mentioned I have seen very few ever in an NGC holder on the MS side to draw any conclusions. My response simply demonstrates that it is not a "perfect" comparision to compare one service's grading of mostly 2001-2002 dated coins vs. another service's grading of 1999-2000 dated coins

Wondercoin

darktone

Thanks Wondercoin, that does make sense. But I am still shocked at totals. mike

sinin1

so if I took 5 MS68's in PCGS holders and sent them to NGC or ANACS for crossover at MS68 or higher, I would get back 5 new slabs in NGC or ANACS?

people always say PCGS has a 0.5 lower grading standard than these other 2, but I am wondering if that is just what PCGS people say -

baccaruda

I'm not surprised at your findings, darktone. ANACS doesn't give out those grades. Try doing a search for ANACS 68, 69, or 70 sometime - you won't find any.

JasonRox

I didn't bother reading the posts, but most of you seem brainwashed by PCGS.

Is it ever possible that anothing grading company has revised their operations, and become more consistent, and less generous at grading?

Oh wait! That company must be PCGS because ANACS or NGC would never do that.