Jester's Challenge #174

1jester · November 25, 2003 5:13AM

Welcome to Jester's Challenge, an interactive history lesson.

Inspired by many others here on the Darkside forum, I'd like to present what I hope will turn into a great learning experience for all of us. Many members on this World and Ancient Coin Forum have done a formidable job of sharing with us many fascinating and historically important coins. Since looking at coins is also one of my greatest pleasures, I'd like to try to follow in that time-honored tradition and submit for your pleasure and entertainment some world coins I've come across in my short lifetime.

I will pick out a coin on a regular basis, and post it along with the challenge to you to name the coin, its provenance, denomination, metallic content, mintage, any distinguishing characteristics or noteworthy features, and its value. The more information, the better. I'd like as many people as possible to participate, regardless of how little knowledge you might have on the subject. I appreciate comments on every aspect of the coin, including its history, or its role in human history, or info on similar coins in its series, etc. I myself don't presume to know 1/1000 of what you collectively know, hence my challenge to all of you to share your knowledge with the rest of us. Hopefully this exercise will encourage thought, discussion, and most importantly, more friendship.

Thanks for your participation!!!

Here is the one hundred seventy-fourth selection:

theboz11 · November 25, 2003 7:18AM

Knew there had to be a Lion I didn't own, Oh well back on the hunt..Very nice

Any particular reason for the 14 sides on the coin?

1jester · November 25, 2003 7:24AM

13 sides. I don't know the significance, if any.

This coin is a commemorative for the new millenium. It's the first one I've seen, as the regular issue 20 Crown pieces have a horse and rider on one side; I picked it up in Prague on Sunday.

This is a nice rendition of the Bohemian lion that's been used on coins for at least 800 years.

theboz11 · November 25, 2003 7:28AM

Well nice pick up.

Shipcoin · November 25, 2003 3:16PM

I like that coin and put it into my shipcoins album! Why? Because it shows Astrolabe, and as one of the main naval instruments from the past, it suits to my "near/about ships" naval theme (like coins with anchors, lighthouses and so on).

I got it , when I was in Marienbad in 2000 , and by the way they minted also comm. 10 Cr. coin with the clock, so that denomination continues "running time theme"!
And you have, Jester, that coin in a really fantastic condition! KM # 43

Theboz.. their 50 Cr. comm. bi-metall coin has even more beutiful lion

1jester · November 25, 2003 5:37PM

Thanks for the additional info, Shipcoin! I didn't know exactly what that instrument was, but now I do!

I got it from a bank in change, so it's BU. And that's not so easy with brass. I don't know the mintage of these coins, in fact, but I'm glad to have one. Next time I'm there I'll be on the lookout for the 10 Crown commemorative.

This is the same lion used on a coin 700 years ago.

I have a Canadian commemorative coin with the ship Astrolabe on it, but I can't locate the scans at the moment.

Shipcoin · November 25, 2003 6:24PM

Jester!

First, you are welcome!

Second , the medieval lion is very, very impressive!!! I suppose that Theboz ask once to give it him ,am I right ?

Third, it will be cool to see your ship "Astrolabe", because Newbie has that ship on his 5 buks coin from Cook Islands!

And the last thing: for a long time I was curious about that grade "BUNC". And here is a opportunity to get an answer from one of the "Masters"

... or may be it is the theme for the separate topic?

The question is: Why Krause gives a separate price for some coins in BU conditions? And for other ones doesn't give such a category and prices for it? Before my joining (and "enjoyning"!) to the forum I thought that only these coins were struck in that type (BU). But now I understand , that we can grade so any coin, which looks like so..as BU coin? Isn't it?

I'll appreciate very much any inf. concerns to that topic--thanks an advance!!

theboz11 · November 25, 2003 7:09PM

BUNC,, Brilliant Uncirculated in the true sense of the word is a coin from a Mint set. Not all countries have mint sets/sample sets and therfore can not have BUNC's. Coins taken out of circulation from rolls in those countries are technically circulated coins and can not be graded BU. In FACT any coin you get that does not show a break in the luster and certainly no Wear is considered a UNC and if it is nice enough may even be a BUNC or MS-63ish. There us also a GBUNC or Gem Brilliant Uncirculated grade that is MS-65ish. It is very hard to tell Circs. from UNC's , if not impossible sometimes and mintage records must be checked to determine if a TRUE UNC or mint sets existed for that year. Does that help?

1jester · November 25, 2003 7:30PM

Good questions, Shipcoin.

Boz, I'd never heard of the stipulation that a Brilliant Uncirculated coin had to come from a mint set; I always thought it referred to condition only, in other words, even if it didn't come from a mint set, if a coin meets certain grade standards, it is BU. I believe there are other terms, too, which refer to different numerical grades, such as select unc., choice unc., brilliant unc., gem brilliant unc., and even superb gem BU. I think these designations are an attempt to separate simply "uncirculated" coins into groups which show the different range of conditions possible.

I'll try to post the Astrolabe coin before too long.

theboz11 · November 25, 2003 7:36PM

Jester these are Lightside rules and give light to the confusion that exists with all this grading.. The Term UNCIRCULATED means just THAT.... It was never ment for circulation and was not distributed for circulation,,,, therefore any coin found in circulation ,,even in a bankroll Can Not and Should not be classified as UNC. As stated before that does not happen in FACT,,,, and most certainly not in the DarkSide material.

1jester · November 25, 2003 7:39PM

I'm all for simplifying it by introducing a 100 point scale!!

Shipcoin · November 25, 2003 7:46PM

Yes it helps, Theboz! Thanks!

May be a small addition/question: here in the forum I saw , at least several times ,that grade- BU for coins, there Krause doesn't mention such category-- for example that specific coin 20 Cr, 2000.
As far as I remember, theren't such option for that coin in Krause. So we just look at that coin in "FACT" as you said and can grade it so.

During last months I have traded with some foreigner collectors, and there were a few comm. coins, that (as I understand now I shoulg grade such ones as BU) but I didn't allow for myself to grade it so. because I haven't see such grade for those coins in Krause. And in addition , if for example, Krause told that UNC coin's price is 5.5$ , what price might be for the same one in BU codition , if book doesn't mention such option?!

So I don't think that we can finally close that topic...

But once more thanks for your explanations, Theboz!

theboz11 · November 25, 2003 7:47PM

I think it should be disbanded,,,, put a price on an object,,, if nobody want to pay that price..Who cares what you think the grade is or should be,,, you haven't sold the coin and the price need to be lower,,, NOT the Grade or eye-appeal or pizzaz.

theboz11 · November 25, 2003 7:56PM

Krause is a Guidline,,It was printed last year and prices change,,,If you think something you like is worth the coins in your pocket...Buy it. It may be half of Krause or Double Krause. You can can do the same thing on the same day. Use Krause as partial Knowledge base. HERE is another,, probably more up to date place. Research, study and knowledge are what go into a good purchase,,, not the Grade somebody else stuck on a piece of plastic.

Shipcoin · November 25, 2003 8:17PM

You are right, Theboz! Thanks!

And now it is really more clear for me!

Thanks Jester! I need to say that I'm completely confused from that "lightside" grade specification: MS... MS... MS... and so on. When I red the explanations Here
I was ... astonished, because it is really difficult for me to get the difference between all these MS... MS..., and for my opinion, that rules are not so suitable for most darkside's coins.
But I'm only a begginer here...

Thanks guys for the explanations!

Jester's Challenge #174

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