Saw a strange Thaler Klippe yesteday.

1jester

In an antique store window in Prague. Of course, I went in immediately to check it out. I have no idea what it was, so I'd appreciate some suggestions. It was dated 1693, and between the date was the denomination "1 Thal" in a box, surrounded by an I and a K (mint master's initials?). What was weird about it was that it had in a circle on one side the British motto "Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" in a circular band. And on the other side were two swords crossed surrounded by another circular band with the same motto, but I believe it was misspelled. I can't comprehend why a British coin would have the Thaler denomination. The coin looked like it could have been authentic, having the tell-tale markings of having been hammered (double struck) and it had a very old bluish patina on it. The overall condition was about Fine, and it had been hairlined at one time, and possibly acid-etched. And I noticed what looked like silver solder in a couple places, as if it had been repaired, but a long time ago. The size was consistent with that of a Thaler sized coin, but I think it appeared a bit thinner than Thalers I'm used to seeing. It was supposedly from Germany. Asking price was nearly $500. Does anyone have a clue what it might have been?

lordmarcovan

The "Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" motto used by the Order of the Garter is not exclusively British. I have seen it on German States coins, too. And remember, the Hanoverian kings of England were more German than British, at least in the first few reigns!

I want an early klippe of some sort, holed neatly at one corner, outside the main design, to put on my Holey Coin Vest. I saw a beautiful, high grade 17th century (1690's?) fractional thaler klippe of some sort at the last show I went to, but it was almost too nice. Aside from the hole, it was high grade; AU/UNC, white, and lustrous. (Which sort of made me wonder about a restrike, but the fine details looked suitably 17th century to me.) The pricetag was just under $100, which seemed reasonable if it wasn't a restrike, but I had to buy certain things at the show and my budget would not allow any more major holey coin additions.

1jester

Thanks, meLord. I wasn't aware that other kingdoms had used that motto. But that would be a more reasonable explanation. Still I wonder if such a klippe would be worth more than $500. I passed on it, but if I were loaded like some around here, I'd have sqeaked and screeched and scurried away with it...

tbirde56

My '99 2nd edition 17th century Krause lists only Saxony with that legend. Lo and behold, it is KM-642, one year type, $100 VG, $180 F, $200 VF, $325 XF. Theme: Johann Georg IV (1691-94) receiving the Order of the Garter. Design: JG4 monogram in garter band, arms in corners; capped wreath with crossed swords, arms in corners.

1jester

Tbirde!!! Way to go! I think that's it. You are awesome!

The coin was way overpriced (even if Krause might be outdated). I'm glad I passed on it.

Askari

Sure it wasn't priced in Zlotys?

1jester

12,000 Czech Crowns.

Askari

Zu viel!

1jester

Waaaaay zu viel. I offered them $200 for it but they said $200 plus a credit card. I handed it back and said good day.

tbirde56

Here's a scan of the catalog pic for those that may want to appreciate what a nice piece it is:

I have to recommend Krause's 17th century edition for anyone with interest in coins of that period. I only have a half dozen cheapies but its enlightening to see what's available.

1jester

Tbirde, that's the coin alright. It was striking in the window, and drew me like a magnet.

ClausUrch

Viel zu Viel, aber ein schones schtick fur 200$!!!

1jester

Leider wollten sie fast $500 dafuer!! Nein, danke.

Askari

I can see why you'd be tempted! A very nice-looking Klippe!!!