What colonials were actually used in early American commerce?

mojorizn

I've seen in many articles where there is a lot of speculation as to which issues saw actual use in the colonies. For instance, the Wood's Hibernia coinage was thought to have seen limited use until recently.
Also, the Voce Populi series, which may have never seen a 18th century New Englander's pocket.

So what series actually merits inclusion into a true Colonial collection and what series were simply foreign tokens/storecards that never saw circulation on this side of the pond?

Mojo

ms70

Great question! I'm looking forward to the answers too.

mojorizn

I don't think anyone else knows either MS70!

Mojo

Pistareen

Hi all:

This is actually my research specialty -- my handle refers to the "pistareen," a Spanish mainland two reales that traded at the rate of 5 to a dollar. In 1784, Thomas Jefferson described the pistareen as "a coin perfectly familiar to us all" and certain colonial Virginia currency was actually denominated in pistareens.

I could literally write you a book length missive about what circulated and what didn't, based upon documentary and archaeological evidence. Here's the short (waaaaay short) version:

Wood's Hibernias turn up in American soil, so they definitely circulated here. But then again, so did every other type of 18th century Irish copper, both genuine and false. I don't know of any large numbers of Voce Populis turning up here. It appears that large numbers of Wood's pieces circulated here because the amount coined for the modest population of Ireland was far excessive of their needs.

Here are some Redbook types that almost never circulated (never say never, as they say -- anything round and brown could have been spent in America):

London Elephant tokens -- collected solely for their relationship to the 1694 Carolina and New England Elephants
Kentucky Tokens -- it's a British merchant token
Franklin Press token -- ditto
Pitt halfpennies -- an American-related medalet, never intended for circulation despite the fact that some got spent
Rhode Island ship medal -- a medal, not a coin, never a coin, couldn't be spent if you tried. Just a Betts medal that an auction crowd got real excited about in 1862 -- after which time they started turning up in numbers from Holland where they were sold as propaganda items against the 1780 Treaty of Armed Neutrality
1767 French Colonies Sou -- a Caribbean type. By 1767, Louisiana was Spanish.
Auctori Plebis -- another British merchant token
Most Washington pieces were medalets struck for collectors, with several exceptions.

So what did circulate in quantity:

counterfeit British halfpence, both English and Irish
genuine British halfpence, especially William III and George II -- especially the 1749 farthings and halfpence sent in quantity (over a million pieces in total) aboard the Mermaid, which arrived in Boston in 1750
Spanish colonial silver coins of every type and denomination
coins from every nation you can think of
state coppers -- Vermont, NJ, Connecticut, Massachusetts, etc.
Things that other colonial coins come overstruck on (Nova Constellatios, counterfeit Irish halfpence, etc.)


OK -- who has questions?

JK

lordmarcovan

As a detectorist in a historical area, I can tell you that Spanish colonial silver was actually more common in circulation than our own half dimes and dimes- I have found three half reales, one 1-real, and one 2-reales piece. I own a four-reales dug by somebody else, and I know of 8-reales pieces being found.

On one site, within mere feet of one another, I found a 1782 Irish "Hibernia" halfpenny (count it as a British coin), a 1782-A French 2-sous piece struck for use in Cayenne (commonly called a "black dog", I believe), and the aforementioned Spanish 2-reales piece, a 1779, which was struck in Mexico city. Just this small sampling from one site should tell you how diverse the circulating coinage was. I estimate that most of these coins were lost in the early 1800's, around the time Aaron Burr was a guest in the house site I was searching (now only ruins).

Here is a biggish picture of the "Colonial Trio" I found.

And none of these coins were Redbook "colonials". So the list is much more extensive than even some colonial coin collectors know about. (Though I bet pistareen knew all this. Interesting, his research.)

Pistareen

I'd be delighted to have any information you have on colonial-era coins dug in your neck of the woods. Most of the information in my database comes from metal detectorists, but frankly I don't know many in Georgia.

My email address is johnk@anrcoins.com

Pistareen

By the way, thanks for the link to your finds! I'm not 100% sure from the photo -- but I think the 1782 Irish 1/2d is a contemporary counterfeit. These things turn up as planchet stock for VT coppers all the time (Ryder 25 and 28 especially) ...

Thanks for sharing them!

shirohniichan

I don't have anything to add to the discussion other than that I love to learn about these things. American numismatics is so much broader than simply coins struck by the US government.

I was going to say it's so much broader than Lincoln cents, but I figured that that sort of comment would immediately make some extra-sensitive board members pounce on me as a "modern basher." Far be it from me to stir up such controversy.

Veridicus

PISTAREENS!

lordmarcovan

Pistareen, there are a few more finds on my eBay page, but not a complete list, and only one other coin. I need to update/expand that.

What I really need to do is update or expand my finds, but that's hard to do on my current schedule, and since my detector died.

I sure would like to find your namesake coin!

Funny, I hadn't thought about my Hibernia being a contemporary counterfeit, though I have found many such in bulk lots. It's one of my favorite dug coins, though worth relatively little, monetarily.

Have you read Artifacts of Colonial America, by Ivor Noel Hume? Also, In Search of This and That: Tales from an Archaeologist's Quest by the same author. Both have sections on archaeological coin finds in America. Shoot, I read anything the guy wrote. Hume is that rare archaeologist who knows his numismatics, and his treatises read like novels, rather than the usual dry and dusty archaeological minutiae.

I want to get the Bowers Treasures and Hoards book but have not been able to get a copy.

Steve Smith, aka "millenium" on the Detector Forum lives in the same town as I do, and his finds far outshine my own. His forum icon is a gold escudo he dug near here. You should visit us on the detector forum. If you're anything like me (or a lot of us), you'll enjoy seeing what others have found. These days, I mostly live vicariously through the finds of others, as I don't get out much anymore. After looking at Steve's finds, from sites I also hunted extensively, I now know that what is in the ground would boggle the imagination- there's stuff I would never have expected to see. I thought my 1658 4-maravedi piece was special, but it pales in comparison to Steve's finds.

And then there's Billy Ridenour. His best coin find made a Coin World article, with information I provided the reporter, who contacted me after reading about the find on these forums. The British halfpenny mentioned in the article that was found in the same hole as the 1798/7 cent turned out to be a contemporary counterfeit, but one made in Britain, rather than on this side of the pond.

I could go on and on and on. A friend of mine in Florida had pictures of a gold Spanish double excelente of Ferdinand and Isabella that some lucky shmuck found! You would have to hospitalize me if I dug something like that.

mojorizn

Thanks for the info! If I were to pursue a historically correct colonial collection it sounds like I have several options!

Mojo

Pistareen

Hey there LordM:

Ivor Noel Hume is one of my favorite authors -- his books display a good knowledge and appreciation for numismatics. Also look into Coins of Colonial America by Joseph Lasser, published by Colonial Williamsburg Foundation. It shows a wide variety of foreign coins that circulated here, and shows pictures of many of the coins that were actually recovered at CW by their archaeological staff. You'll see a few pistareens (and 1/4 pistareens) in there.

I may well wander over to the detecting forum for a visit.

If you need a copy of Dave Bowers' book on American Coin Treasures, drop me a PM or an email and I may be able to procure a copy for you.

I always enjoy seeing what kind of colonial-era coins people dig. They fit into my personal collection for several reasons: they're relatively inexpensive, I can use them with my research, no one wants to slab them, and I'm not competing with my firm's customers to get them. Of course, it would be even cooler if I could find them myself ...

My favorite dug piece in my collection is either the 1/4 cut portion of a counterfeit Mexico 8 reales from Virginia, or a 1578 Elizabeth I sixpence dug in Maryland.

ConstellatioCollector

Here is a timeline that someone put up in the message boards.


Link

ConstellatioCollector

Link Fixed below!

relayer

<< <i>Here is a timeline that someone put up in the message boards. >>



Man that would be a great collection

Rittenhouse

Geez, now JK shows up - another Rittenhouse member. The boards are gonna go downhill fast now! Hmm, if we could just get Julian to show up.....


LordM - check out "Fractional Money" by Neil Carothers. Carothers documents (from records of Congress) the relative quantities of foreign & US in circulation. Your experience fits with the historical register.


See you at Baltimore JK.



Best, Craig

Pistareen

Craig --

This is what happens when you're in the office on a weekend -- too much time spent on the boards.

There could be some other Rittenhouse types that could do some real damage here. Eric's on his computer everyday -- betcha he could set some people straight.

See you in Baltimore for sure.

JK

Russ

Bump for a cool thread.



(And and excuse to post my Hibernia. )

Russ, NCNE

Veridicus

Neat coin Russ. I had an interesting time when I lived in England finding colonial copper. British coin dealers will sell you bags of pre decimal copper coins by the kilo. Most are 1895-1967 pennies and half pennies but I found many older coins including colonial copper. Some of the more notable coins I found were a St. patrick farthing, hibernia half penny, and a Virginia half penny, among others. I also found in one bag about 20 indian head cents, no rare ones though. Man, I spent a lot of fun evenings going through that stuff.

IndianHeadMan

hey Pistareen..... you might try this web site. click me alot of people post their relic and coin finds. Check out the photo forum and the relic forum. I bet if you put out a few feelers you would get more data then you could handle.

ConstellatioCollector

If Russ can, I can!