Coin I.D. Help Required (New Closeup Added)

Lloyd · November 21, 2003 9:03AM

Could anyone ID these coins for me....? The top picture diameter is around 27mm and the second "coin" is around 20mm at the widest point. Both appear to be silver.

Thanks in Advance

EDITED TO ADD: the bottom one is really bugging me - I've seen that type of thing before and I can't think where

1960NYGiants · November 21, 2003 9:13AM

The top one looks Egyptian - I cannot find it in Krause so I suspect it is a medal. Opening of the Suez Canal?

The other, I have no clue.

Gene

tbirde56 · November 21, 2003 9:17AM

Interesting medal! A steam/sail ship with oars?!?
Looks like its date 133?. 1335 is equivalent to 1916/17.
It also has a Turkish toughra design used during that period although Egypt was a British protectorate after 1914.

lordmarcovan · November 21, 2003 9:17AM

What he said. I guess something to do with the Suez Canal is a good theory. Coin or medal, that is a very cool piece!

DCH · November 21, 2003 9:20AM

Bottom piece looks like a Dirham from Morocco

Lloyd · November 21, 2003 9:20AM

I didn't say the top one looked and felt like a medal in the hand in case it influenced the outcome.

Any idea where I could get a reference on this "medal"?

L

Lloyd · November 21, 2003 9:23AM

<< Bottom piece looks like a Dirham from Morocco >>

It is - I just found it...... Great thanks a lot....

Lloyd

lordmarcovan · November 21, 2003 9:24AM

<< A steam/sail ship with oars?!? >>

Dreadnought -era battleships had some sort of lines that ran diagonally down their sides (anti-torpedo nets, maybe?)

These were more turn-of-the-century ships, though, and the Suez Canal opened in 1869, so maybe the medal/coin celebrates its 25th anniversary or something like that?

Lloyd · November 21, 2003 9:27AM

LordM
I just looked through the loop at the "oars" and they ARE diagonal lines on the ship itself... just like you say.

Look like oars on the pic though

L

tbirde56 · November 21, 2003 9:28AM

The bottom one does appear to be the dirham DCH said it was. That'd make it C-178a. The 1283 date is equivalent to 1866.

lordmarcovan · November 21, 2003 9:37AM

I just noticed what appears to be "1331" beneath the toughra on the reverse of the "medal"- which would be 1912 AD, yes? (So there go the theories about it commemorating the opening of the Suez Canal, or its 25th anniversary... but I still think there's a connection there, somehow...)

Askari · November 21, 2003 10:03AM

I'm pretty positive the top one is a medal, and that is indeed a warship. It likely commemorates the first visit of a British dreadnought or perhaps a heavy warship provided to Egypt, although I'm not sure they ever received a dreadnought. I'm a bit weak on such naval history details.

Shipcoin · November 21, 2003 11:22PM

Nice steam ship Lloyd!

The upper one supposes to be an Egyptian medal and not a coin, they really minted some comm. coins devoted to Suez canal , but in 1974-1976 something like that --I have two of them and they have absolutely different design ( the only common thing is the sun at them), with Suez Tanker on them. Also are known French tokens 1865 ( 20 and 50 santims and 1 franc values, Bronze) these pieces are were also connected by someway to the Suez Canal and have another design.
So I think that you have here some Egyptian medal with War Steam ship and it might something devoted to S. channel --- the type of ship certainly has changed after 50 years (and in 1914 one Suez's share had a value of 2500 francs at Stock Exchange-- may be they celebrated that fact by such a medal

or it might be something, that Askari writes in that thread, shows us , as usual

his imrobable erudition!

Askari · November 21, 2003 11:40PM

<< Askari writes in that thread, shows us , as usual his imrobable erudition! >>

"Improbable erudition" ... I like that! Maybe I should use it in my sig line.

laurentyvan · November 22, 2003 12:06AM

Stork · November 22, 2003 8:27AM

I would toss in support for the Suez canal theory only because on my trips through there was a Mosque type building visible that the one on the medal made me think of, even before I read any of the other posts. Of course, we were using nuclear power, not steam

By the way, the other side 'sqiggly' looks very much like the picture from a recent thread from tlhoy...if you keep reading down the thread it seems this is also looking like Egyptian.

The Thread in Question

So, no real original thought or contribution on my part....but thanks for putting things like this up here to look at.

spoon · November 22, 2003 3:54PM

That's not Egyptian. Due to the date it wouldn't make sense unless the Ottomans retook the Canal in battle? (I'm not up on that area of history) So, I looked around.. if you'll notice the squiggly to the right of the toughra, that's an honorific for Muhammad Rashat V only used on Turkish Ottoman coins from what I can tell. It could be a battleship passing through the Bosporus? I dunno.. can you get a better detailed (bigger) pic of the obverse? I'll try to get someone to decipher the squiggly.

Lloyd · November 23, 2003 12:45AM

Spoon - bigger pic as requested - best i can do with my lighting system....

Thanks everyone

L

newsman · November 23, 2003 12:56AM

The writing on the medal is probably Turkish. I don't recognize any of the words, so I'm pretty sure it's not Arabic, and the Turks used Arabic script during the Ottoman era.

Edited to add: I think Spoon is right -- the mosque on the medal resembles the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul.

spoon · November 23, 2003 1:44AM

Cool, I'll try to prod someone into telling us what it says later this week. We've got plenty of Arabic linguists and Turks here, between them someone will know.

In the meantime, here's Istanbul.. er, Constantinople (sorry Dimitri

) from water:

Lloyd · November 23, 2003 2:07AM

That's excellent. The photgraph looks like the harbour on the medal doesn't it....? Almost certainly Istanbul.

Thanks for all the help - this item is intriguing me now....

Lloyd

Shipcoin · November 23, 2003 3:15AM

But the drawing or figure, or stylized letter/s at the rev. of that coin (the ship is always obv. for me) is the same one as at the Egyptian coins, including contemporary ones --- you can see it in Krause. So, still we have here some connection to the Egypt!

newsman · November 23, 2003 3:38AM

<< But the drawing or figure, or stylized letter/s at the rev. of that coin (the ship is always obv. for me) is the same one as at the Egyptian coins, including contemporary ones --- you can see it in Krause. So, still we have here some connection to the Egypt! >>

Right -- The toughra (the stylized figure you refer to) is the monogram of the Ottoman emperor. Egypt was under the nominal rule of the Ottomans until World War I, when it came under British control.

spoon · November 23, 2003 3:16PM

Lloyd, I posted the closeup on a Turkish forum last nite in hopes of getting a quicker answer.. well, it worked. Apparently it says "donanma iane medalyasý" (ý being the dotless I). It was a fundraising medal for the Ottoman navy. That's just one person's idea so far so I'll try to verify it with another opinion.

You might also be able to email the owner of this website for more details and perhaps a value: http://www.turkishmedals.net/

lordmarcovan · November 23, 2003 3:20PM

Nice work, spoon!

Lloyd · November 23, 2003 3:34PM

Well it never fails to astonish me the information one can obtain from this forum.

Thanks for the excellent work, Spoon.

Lloyd

Askari · November 23, 2003 9:52PM

<< Well it never fails to astonish me the information one can obtain from this forum. >>

Hear! Hear!

Coin I.D. Help Required (New Closeup Added)

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