63 Topps - New set of the week?

Wayne8348

I would like more information on this set. The 70 Kelloggs thread was great so hopefully we can get another one started.


First question, everyone says this is a very tough set because of the colored borders yet there seems to be a large amount of cards readily available in psa 8. In fact, there are approximately the same number of 8's in the 63 set as there are in the 65 set (which is considered one of the easiest). Both sets have between 44,000 and 49,000 total graded cards.


It also seems that there isn't as much interest in this set amongst collectors on this board as the 65-69 sets? Any ideas why? I think it's the sharpest set from the 60's in high grade.


What are the most difficult cards to complete a set in psa 8 or better?


One observation, the price difference between an 8 and a 9 is huge compared to sets from the later 60's. Commons in 8's may sell about $15 in mid to high pop's but the 9's seem always to go $150+++. In the later 60's it's easy to find 9's for $40 - $70. Are there that many big dollar collectors going after the 9's? Or what is specifically driving this?


I'm looking forward to your responses. Outside of the friends I've made on these boards, the information from the different sets has been the second most valuable part of spending way too much time reading this everyday.

Wayne

gemint

I've been casually building this set. I've always liked it and can't figure out why there isn't a passionate following for the set on these forums. The design is attractive and the Rose rookie gives the set all the credibility it needs. Add to that some desirable late series stars like Killebrew, Brock and Clemente not to mention the Stargell rookie and it makes for a solid investment/collectible. I think the most challenging aspect from a condition prospective is that there are several cards in the set that have chronic print problems. The first series seems to be particularly plagued by print snow. I remember coming across a high grade set at the 2000 National in Anaheim. It was selling for $7000 with all the stars graded 8 except it was missing the Rose and Clemente. The commons were beautiful but almost the entire first series was plagued by print snow. I was tempted to pull the trigger but ended up buying a nice 1971 NM+ set instead.

One thing I've found with sets that have expensive high numbers is that you're better off buying them already graded. Paying $20-$25 for a raw common and then having it come back a 7 is a real killer. Many can be had already in PSA 8 holders for roughly the cost of the raw card and you remove the risk of not pulling the grade when submitting yourself.

CW

I can't offer any insight to your questions, but I just
wanted to say this is a great set to pick and I look forward
to learning more about it. In terms of quality and vivid
color photography, this set was a great improvement over the
drab photos of the 1962 set. The only card I have from the
'63 set is the Rose rookie, and it's one of my favorites.
I've always thought that the '83 Topps set was sort of the
modern tribute to the '63 -- similar design with the photos,
and seperated by exactly 20 years.

toppsgun

While I'm no expert in 1963 Topps, I do play one on TV. I've also learned a bunch from one of the top guys on the Registry. He may read these boards, but he doesn't post as far as I know.

By far the toughest commons in 8, due to print snow and centering:
14-Ramos
21-Keough
22-Simmons
27-Coleman
28-Fornieles
30-Kuenn
34-Schofield
40-Power
50-Pierce
52-Schilling
61-Bowman
84-Kline
89-Stigman
114-Osinski
Anything in the 4th series (284-370), especially 310-Davis, 325-Sanford, 328-Williams.

Tough stars, relative to population vs. SMR value:
320-Spahn
340-Berra
500-Killebrew
520-Cepeda
120-Maris, always seems to bring a premium, as does 173 Bombers Best.

The set as a whole is an interesting play in raw form. The 6th series (447-522) were supposedly shorter in supply than the pure high numbers (523-576). In graded form the 7th series has less than 10% more 8's than the 6th series (commons). I've never found either of the higher series to be particularly rare, raw or graded. I've put together 3 sets.

The fourth series (284-370) is about half as plentiful as the 5th series (371-446) in graded form. The prices of those cards and the second series to some extent are fairly low.

One oddity: the last card in the set with a green border is #446-Whitey Ford. No cards in the 6th or 7th series were printed with a green border.

The reason prices seem reasonable? More supply than demand and the colored border freaks didn't come around until 1970, 71 & 75.

I agree with Wayne. It's a beautiful set in 8. Or even 7. T/B centering is deceptive due to the colored border. Theoretically, the highest possible GPA is 9.0, but the top dogs are struggling to get past 8.25. That set in a 9 would be a killer.

sellerman23

I really like this set as well.
If I were to tackle another set from the 60's, this would be the one. I have the Musual (#250) card from this set that I got as a Christmas gift a very long time ago. It graded out a PSA 6. I always enjoyed Stan the Man's smile on this card. It look me years to realize he seems to have that smile on every card...
I also like the Brooks Robinson and Frank Robinson cards in this set.

Dave
sellerman23

sagard

I've always wondered if there are more high numbered commons graded due to their perceived scarcity? This led to many more high series cards being graded and unfairly portraying true populations. But time has not seemed to correct the pop report.

I bought an exmt-nrmt set many years ago from a person who used to post here. Got sevens on Mantle/Rose/Aaron and some others. Sixes on Mays/Koufax/Clemente. Nice description considering it was at least 7 years ago.

minibeers

I don't have much to add except to say 1963 is one of my all-time favorite sets and that, if I'm brave enough, I will embark on collecting that set once my 1966 set is done (49 cards to go!).

The colors and photography set this set apart. I remember when I was 11 years old I had about 300 of these cards all in sweet nearmint condition. The thing I remember most about them is, compared to all my other cards, they had a slight warp to them when all stacked together. Probably doesn't mean anything.

My favorite card from the set is Stan Musial. I love his "psst, hey kid, wanna buy a watch" smile.

Scott

mariner

Very interesting reading about the 1963 Topps set......

This is one of my favorites too. I do have a start on the registry for 1963's.

This is one of the few sets that survived my childhood. I still have that set intact with no replacements. Quite a few have rounded corners and other problems from being handled so much. Overall, that set is about VG-EX at best. But, it is worth a lot because of its sentimental value.

I was fortunate enough about six years ago to acquire a 1963 Topps presentation set. The cards that you see graded on my registry set came from the presentation set. I am grading a little along because I am also working on 1959, 1960 and 1961 sets. I hope my scope isn't too broad.

About the 1963's, I have found that the high numbers are among the easiest to find in high grade. Other years, high numbers can be tough but not in '63's. The list mentioned in an earlier post by toppsgun is 'right on' as far as tough cards go.

purelyPSA

I like the photography quality from this set. I think that the odd year sets from the early 60s (61,63,65) are light years ahead in picture quality of the even year sets (62,64). I wonder why that is. And I love the Rich Rollins card - he looks like such a dork in those glasses he's just dying to be stuffed in a trash can in any given high school across the nation.

Cubfan

I have a couple of raw wrong/backs from the 1963 Topps set. Are these fairly common or not so common in this set?

Also, are there any "unusual" cards from this set?

That was an interesting point about the green Ford. I always enjoy little pieces of info like that.

toppsgun

"Rich Rollins card - he looks like such a dork in those glasses he's just dying to be stuffed in a trash can in any given high school across the nation."

Now that's funny.

Try #51 George Alusik. Same trash can.

"I have a couple of raw wrong/backs from the 1963 Topps set. Are these fairly common or not so common in this set?"

Wrongbacks are not common, but they do pop up every once in a while. I had a #214-Orlando Pena with #229-Willie Davis on the back. To my knowledge, no wrongbacks are ever listed as variations. Wish they were. It might be interesting to build a data base of them as they turn up. Probably one sheet that got turned around during the first print run. Kind of like trying to copy the front and back of a sheet of paper in the xerox machine for the first time. Better let the secretary do it.

"Also, are there any "unusual" cards from this set?"

Six variation cards:
#29-Rookies 1962 and 1963 versions.
#54-Rookies 1962 and 1963 versions.
#102-checklist with red on yellow border and white on red versions.
#431-checklist with white on red border and black on orange versions.
#454-Fowler with card number in a white box on back and no white box.
#509-checklist comes with copyright on back centered and shifted to the right.

Uncorrected oddities:
#42-Stan Williams is a Yankee, but has "LA" on his cap. Never airbrushed it out.
#113-Don Landrum photo is actually Ron Santo.
#228-Oliva rookie, first name "Pedro" instead of Tony.
#231-Eli Grba photo is actually Ryne Duren.

Also interesting to figure out the printing sheets, DPs and SPs, is tough. Since a sheet held 132 cards, 11 x 12, here are the series counts:
1 - 109 (109 cards)
110-196 (87 cards)
197-283 (87 cards)
284-370 (87 cards)
371-446 (76 cards)
447-522 (76 cards)
523-576 (54 cards)

acowa

I have always thought that the Harry Craft card was odd. I guess Topps couldn't find a second picture of him to put inside the circular inset. It's the only card that I have found in the set that has a totally different look from the rest of the set.


Regards,


Alan

sellerman23

Funny that the Stan Williams card is like that. His 1965 Topps card lists him as an Indian, yet there he is in the picture with pinstripes and the NY on his hat blacked out. But they used the color black to black out the NY logo on the dark blue hat and it looks really lame. It really looks like someone wrote on the card with a black ball point pen.

Dave
sellerman23

thecommoncard

Forgive me as I am a newbie here.... I have been lurking for some time, and I frequent the beckett board. I have just started to dabble in this set. I went right to a trusty source on some information on it. This information I have already passed onto some via email. Some of it has already been covered on this post, but here is what I have gatherd.

The 63 set is a tough nut to crack. There is aworld of difference between 7's and 8's. The first series (1-109) and 4th series (284-370) are particularly tough. To show you an extreme example--the last Vic Power #40 that sold on ebay in grade 8 went for over $800. You can buy 7's,all day long,for $10.If you intend to complete the set in grade 8, you have to spend serious dollars. Don't get me wrong,there are a
ton of 8's that can be had on ebay for less than SMR.I
just wanted to warn you about some of the cards in grade 8. The 63 is a beautiful set and if I can be a help to you-let me know.

I hope this helps someone, as the info has been helpful to me. I cut some of the fine print out, but left what I feel is important.

Jeff

mariner

Welcome to the forum, Jeff!

You are right, the 1963 set is a tough nut to crack.

Davalillo

What is interesting to this set to me is that except for the obvious(Vic's rookie card), is the close competition for top set. In most vintage sets, one set is clearly the best or at most there is one serious competitor such as in 1965. Here we have 4 sets within .09 of each other at the top(Duke of Mint, Hank, Ambak and Marshall Fogel). I thought I remembered someone else at the top of the heap here but either he changed his name or sold his set.

toppsgun

Nope. Those four have been battling it out for a couple of years. There are at least two non-registered collectors lurking out there that would be somewhere north of 8.20 or so. There is an underground fraternity of this group. Secret handshake, password and everything.

Good luck breaking into it. Rumor is, they blackball regularly.